used to be until he got recalled is the more appropriate phrasing...

ok ok ok......Stop right there. Mantooth...explain to me very carefully why you think we would retain the % bump from trading PS for the next 30 years. If you do that in a clear concise way, i will change my stance on this. Other wise you just look like a money grubbing short timer....im not calling you that......just saying you look like one.

Two questions. One, if trading PS for pay rates is a good deal, why is management pushing it so hard? Two, when the economy turns, and it will, the company will come after our pay rates. Then we end up with a contract with lousy QOL concessions, PS decreases for when the economy recovers, and reduced pay rates. Not sure why you're arguing the company's line, but your argument that we would bargain off new rates in subsequent contracts ignores the history of this profession.

I think the point most people are trying to make is that pay rates are going to be the same across UAL, AA, DL etc. within a few percent always. If we throw profit sharing into pay rates now next contract they'll look at us and completely forget we gave up profit sharing and compare our rates to our so called peers. You don't agree? For example are we now allowed much higher pay rates than UAL because we rolled profit sharing into pay in 2012? You may say they patterned of our rates, which included 2012 profit sharing rolled in, to get their current rates. That's possible but AA hasn't had profit sharing until recently but has relatively the same pay rates as we do.

Bingo! We are actually seeing this play out before our eyes with this TA.

Scoop

They just don't get it. We won't sell our QOL for a few bucks.

So you agree then. It IS about the money.

^^^^^^this!

You can't have it your way. They won't allow us to have substantially higher rates. So, we're stuck with UAL or AA or SWA "plus" as a cap, with or without throwing away PS. I'd prefer without throwing away PS.

What is your retirement year?

How is that relevant to anything? Does it make you feel better throwing him under the bus knowing he only has a few years left?

No....I'm just curious. Our calculators aren't in sync and I would like to figure out why. That's the only variable I can think of.

Sorry for the snark. I get the feeling that some of the "QOLers" on here have zero problem throwing the deadzoners under the bus so they don't have to get a doctor's note.

No.

Problem.

Yeah, that's why we are stuck in the mud James...a doctor's note.

Just like they (you?) would throw the young guys under the bus for an extra 16%ish. I get it, I understand it. But hopefully there are more of us than you. Please stop griping about this when your crowd is doing the same thing. Let's all be honest with each other eh?

It's more than just a doctors note but you know that. It's about setting the right precedent when the company is making ****ing billions. Come on dude

One of the reasons. If I felt like proving the point that you know is true, I'd go back and quote all the "I'm voting no because of the sick leave" posts.

That's not the point of the post though Tank. The point is that those with the most time to recover are going to throw the deadzoners right under the bus and feel great about doing so yet get all incensed if one of said deadzoners refers to a good deal money wise.

Unity.

Selfishness is not a big part of that concept.

Right on cue, MR Selfish in the flesh.

No stud. I have my pushbutton issues as well. And my pushbutton issues are ones that will keep YOU from being screwed. But you don't GAS about that do you? You aren't even remotely interested in compromise. It's your way or the highway. I am not that selfish.

I think the pie got bigger over last year. Right?

Has it? Did we get a pay increase that I have not heard about?

It' s like the stock market. You haven't made money until you sell. We haven't sold.

Yes, bring ALL Delta brand flying to Delta pilots. End all outsourcing completely.

No but the buyer seems more motivated.

It's no big deal, most of us are somewhat frustrated. I fully understand the deadzone guys got the shaft on more then one occasion. I think the south guys saw the worst of it. Whether it was B scale, RJs, furlough or long term stagnation, they were shafted. The problem is the process involved in these issues began with management but were eventually implemented because of pilots senior to them. It's a circle, the senior sellout the junior guys and this process continues perpetually. A ****** circle, if you will.

This mindset is changing within a large number of senior pilots. They have been crapped on by senior guys for a good part of their careers but many are fed up with this concept and are simply not going to accept it this time around. There is no better time to break the circle then the present and many are displaying an extreme level of integrity.

I applaud their sacrifice and in return I will not sell out the junior folks for the duration of my career.

How many years do you have left D Mantooth? Just curious because my calculator and math don't seem to work the same as yours.

That's actually what I'm starting to wonder...

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner! Step right up sir and claim your prize.

Has your compensation improved more over the last 3 years by 3% cola bumps or % gains in profit sharing? How about this year?

Hee hee hee!!! Best signs ever! Where can I get mine?

Of course I'm selfish, I've already admitted that in past comments. But so are you so stop calling everyone else selfish. It's hypocritical. Just like when you blithely told someone they should have planned better for their retirement, and are now *****ing about getting more money for your retirement. What exactly do you find confusing about that?

Not picking on you. Your post just happened to be the most recent with this theme.

What if the survey indicated we want money over all else? What if the "QOL" items aren't as important to us as the compensation items?

It will always be a "what if," because the mere peasants don't get to see the polling info.

What if you worked for an employer that honored their deals and appreciated their employees for rescuing the business?

Yes. I think everyone here gets it but that Mantooth dude.

I agree. Calling other Pilots selfish because they have different priorities is a losing argument all around. Stick to the facts and lets not make assumptions (usually wrong) about other Pilots motivations.

Scoop :)

What does "QOL" have to do with a PS for pay trade? Not a damn thing.

So, you guys would all trade pay rates for profit sharing. Good to know.

Validates my thoughts about many of the posters on this board.

Whats your retirement year?

I think retaining that investment as 1/3 of total compensation is about right to diversify my compensation. Thereby capturing the outsourced profit generation as well as global commercial initiatives. Not to mention the myriad of profit generating techniques not yet known that management will use to grow the enterprise.

Why not graph this out?

Take Joe Average ATL7ERB at 60% on the seniority list and multiply PWA 2012 pay for 2016-2020. Then run projected PS numbers, do high %, current % and 0% PS.

Then change the numbers for what TA2015 would have been and say what TA2016 might be.

Put real numbers to it, pay rates are not everything, W2 is.

It's just an idea. Now I'm going back to make fun of Huffpost posters....

So I suppose you see that the shoe fits both feet and will acknowledge that as well? Or does it not apply since his opinion is in lockstep with yours?

What college did Steve Jobs graduate from?

Mantooth tell us why you couldn't get in the Air Force?

I took his comment as a reproach of us both. But if you want to make it all about you........what do they call that again?

I catch a lot more **** on her than you do because my opinion is not the popular one. So I just assume it is wrong.