We couldn't even vote in a contract before you are on property so it would not matter to you. You will be under the current contract.

 

I wonder how many who don't even have Atps or are even still in school got a slot at the open house. I like UALs method with their mil open house of doing some vetting.

The open house registration could ask some basic questions like atp, degree, turbine time, etc, before you're allowed to attempt to select a slot.

 

It mentioned that if you dont have a 4 year degree and 1000 turbine time then to not register. I imagine if someone shows up without those it wont bode well for them.

 

We still need to Pickett the job fair.

 

That's a good question. We haven't seen any official language on that specifically and even if there was some it could change by then. The best indicator would maybe be whatever happened when they added the one year freeze. I *think* it only effected pilots hired after that date but I'm sure someone will promptly clarify.

Its worth noting that under the current freeze (and likely any longer one, if it happens) you can still change during the freeze if a change is required to change domiciles. So if you were NYC88 and wanted SLC you could still bid one of their planes. You can also change domicile on any bid that you can hold it on the same equipment. And of course you still have access to any new category regardless of your freeze. In addition, you can still upgrade for the first time even if under a freeze, provided you can hold it. Lately its actually gone to the sub 2 year timeframe. Could it go sub one year? I'd be surprised but you never know.

So all hope is not lost if you get a crappy first assignment.

 

Are you considering C2015 proposals to be "the current freeze"? This exception you state does NOT exist in C2012 (current contract). The bottom feeders who get M88 in indoc are currently frozen out of movement to SEA, LAX, DTW and SLC (where no M88 base exists) and cannot bid on any movement that COULD trigger training less than 365 days after day 1 of indoc.

If one is lucky enough to have a new category open during their first year (e.g., 717 opening in NYC when that happened), and it goes junior enough that a probie could hold it, THEN the freeze is thawed. In the NYC example, that pilot could then move laterally in 717 to another base (e.g. LAX) in subsequent AEs, assuming their seniority could hold that. I doubt this new base exception helps many people, nor that it helps many pilots shave off more than a few months of being based where they don't want to be.

 

Yes I fully expect that language to be in any upcoming TA. Assuming the language remains, you will be able to change fleets during your freeze (1 or 2 years) if you need to in order to get that base.

In your new category example, you only talked about a frozen new hire making a lateral, but that has little to do with a new category since anyone can lateral anytime anyway (if they can hold it, like anything else). Any pilot, no matter how frozen, can jump to any new category/plane/base provided they can hold it regardless of freeze. So if a frozen new hire is NYC88 and they open MSP737 or LAX320 or any C Series or A350 or E190 (or CRJ900, which pays the same as E190) or whatever, they can still participate in the bid regardless of the freeze.

The company will desperately want a longer new hire freeze. IMO that's actually a much larger issue to them than many of their other "religious issues". We saved their bacon with the upcoming training churn giving them a one year freeze, and in return we got OE trip drops. Now they want to do away with many if not most OE trip drops and get a 2 year freeze. Um, yeah, that's going to cost them at the table. Big time. Big. Time.

 

I am confused. Any pilot can jump to any new category. I agree, where NEW is not new to the pilot, but to the existing list of categories (e.g., DTWM88B would be new, as would DTWCS1B and DEN73NB). But the "/plane/base" portion of your statement is lost on me since plane and base are defined by the category classification already.

Not trying to beat a dead horse, just want to make sure newbies, lurkers and poolies know what is and isn't possible with the current language since my gut tells me we won't have new language any time soon.

 

We have to assume everyone understands that "new category" refers to a category that is new. Not "new to me" because that parses words to the point of sophistry where nothing means anything anymore.

I don't think anyone would literally think they were pre-unfrozen to bid anything "new to them" otherwise there would effectively be no such thing as a freeze ever and no one thinks that.

 

I think we agree? Maybe it depends on what the definition of is is.

Your statement "Its worth noting that under the current freeze (and likely any longer one, if it happens) you can still change during the freeze if a change is required to change domiciles." is not CURRENTLY true.

If you had said "Its worth noting that under the current COMPANY PROPOSAL (and likely any longer one, if it happens) you can still change during the freeze if a change is required to change domiciles.", I would have remained silent.

The proposed base-change exception would have been nice to have had written into our current language.