Airline Pilot Central Forums - Pay Rate Comparison

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- - Pay Rate Comparison (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/97777-pay-rate-comparison.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2229481)

You need to post correct info on their new B plan. Most pilots will never see anything like the numbers you are posting unless they are a 30 year old new hire and even then it's far from guaranteed. It's only good to the next contract or chapter 11. There is no lookback for years of service. It only accrues going forward.

That can be said about anything. Ours too.

They have a great plan. Not what I want, but a great plan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShutUpNFly (Post 2229373)

"Pay Rate Comparison" presentations are only a small portion of an entire contract. Compare the ENTIRE new and improved Delta TA to the new UPS contract in relation to the Defined Benefit Plan (A Fund) paying $126K per year in retirement, 12% B Fund, no PBS scheduling BS, the new OCV vacation rules where a 2 week vacation now results in a guaranteed month off, optional annual 72 hour sick bank cash out, etc etc.

I'd like to see the profitable people movers make a strong push for reinstatement of a well-deserved A Plan vs. eyeing a profit sharing check. Spoke with a Schwab rep the other day to get the facts.... to guarantee our A Plan number of $126K per year for life after retiring at age 65 I'd have to write them a $2.53M check on the day I retired. That's a lot of profit sharing checks. Food for thought.

Vacation I fully agree. Sick leave I am glad to have 270 hrs a year if I need it. Re the pension vs our DC+PS. Dunno about Schwab. I ran numbers thru Vanguard (100,000 to buy 553/month) and came up with $1.898M to buy an age 65 male single live annuity of $126K. Over 30 years it would take 2280.54 month(27,366,49yr) at 5% to produce that lump sum. We get 4% more DC than UPS and Pensionable Pro Sharing. With an average 10% PS that is 15.6% of income you could contribute to retirement savings. Over time is that worth more than $27K a year? I think easily so. In addition it is up front money in your name and not a promise from the corporation. DALPA put out a pretty thorough letter describing the problems in reinstating our A plan. Specifically it may not even be possible and may take a long time to even find out. I'll offer my personal perspective. I turned 52 the month DAL's pension was canned. I do not want a new DB. Newbies are forewarned: we were not. The DB was presented to us as a guarantee and lots of DL, USAir, UAL pilots treated it as such. They saved minimally and lived the dream till it became their nightmare. DB plans can be terminated, future accumulations can be changed or frozen. You can have what you've already earned taken away or limited by arcane rules. With DC and personal savings it is your money. Anyone smart enough to fly a jet can manage their own finances. It is all about planning and discipline. Your retirement=your money. DB=NoWay. OFG

All good points OldFlyGuy. Concerning the "we get 4% more DC" I was under the impression the Delta DC was capped at the 401k Federal limit of $18K. Our 12% DC is capped at $265,000 of earnings which equates to $31,800.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesBond (Post 2229389)

I don't have to eat Madagascar Hissing Cockroaches to know that some 'food' is awful. As to a DB plan - hell to the no.

I guess to each their own. The UPS guys retiring today over age 60 are mostly 1988 hires with 27 - 28 years of service. $4,000 x 28 sounds like $112K per year plus the hopefully 7 figures in their DC from the 12% over their career.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShutUpNFly (Post 2229555)

Based on 2016 IRS limits, the employee can only contribute 18k. The company can contribute until the combined = 53k. Anything over and above that comes back to us as regular taxable pay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShutUpNFly (Post 2229560)

I am truly happy for the UPS and FedEx guys having their pensions. I hope you guys keep them and don't have to give away a lot to keep it. However, a lot of guys don't want negotiating capital spent on something that is not in our name and can easily be taken (or given away) from us. I agree with that, I have no desire for a pension. Things I would like to see is greater 401k contribution or having my 401k filled up at the beginning of the year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crewdawg (Post 2229562)

Based on 2016 IRS limits, the employee can only contribute 18k. The company can contribute until the combined = 53k. Anything over and above that comes back to us as regular taxable pay.

Roger. Thanks for clarifying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShutUpNFly (Post 2229555)

There is no cap on the DC. If you hit the 415C limit of 53,000 then it is still paid however as ordinary income. In addition since our PS is pensionable the actual DC payout will be about 3% more for a total of 19% at the current profit projections. 2015 should come in around 18%.