Pay Rate Comparison
 

Charts from DALPA:


http://www.taprocon.com/assets/img/PayComparison.png
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This looks great!
Now can you post a vacation comparison?

Will someone please explain how the C-100, which holds less pax, will out pay the 717? Don't get it.

GTF pay...

Same way the MD pays less than the bus

OK, so how is rate determined? Do we know, or is it smoke and mirrors?

Since 1998 we have made a case that pilots should share in the efficiency of a airframe. That is how the delta dot was set. The C100 is clearly more economical and has at least double the range.

More economical, don't know but guess so, but C series has 50% more range. Definitely not 100% more range.

Well the base model for the 717 is listed at 1430 miles. Base model for the CS100 is 3100 miles. It also expands that range advantage as runway length gets shorter.

It's the same logic applied to (seemingly) all of our payscales. Throw a dart at the dart board, see where it lands. Our pay-for-equipment seriously needs adjustment, from top to bottom

Three, two, one...go James

I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy the show.

You made an appearance, and that's what counts.

At first glance, here is a theory:

Maybe they're not so random. Seems like some of us are upset that other carriers have a greater proportion of WB flying (not sure if that's fact or myth). Seems like like we invested our negotiating capital in making sure the vast majority of us are paid at/above our peers, in that case. Factor in PS, and it seems that, pound for pound, we're getting a premium vs. the industry.

Has the NC tried to weight it that way, DALMECvolunteer?

Of course they have and will, just like the last TA. I am more inclined to prescribe to that line of thinking when the PS is full defined and the audits are made public for YOY comparison with regard to accounting. But yeah, I agree ,we get industry average pay and great profit sharing. This BTW is the only way we will ever be significantly above the average.

PROFIT SHARING: embrace it, never sell it.

Report the calculation and audit to maintain proper compliance in order to reap the benefit of non-Delta operated global growth.

How do you figure it's industry average for NB, from these charts, which I assume are exclusive of PS?

Edit: Actually, it's true for virtually everything but the 7ER for the FedEx/UPS.

Some rates are slightly above and some are slightly below, the overall pay is average. A smaller average gauge fleet requires a higher average rate. We are average.

MD88/90 pays less than 319/20....explain that too while you are at it.

FYI
 

They way the Delta "me-too" works is a bit convoluted. But, basically we get an across the board raise to match your raise % by the end of our contract in Jan 2019. (i.e. Your 31% - our 24% = 7%). I don't believe we get an actual raise Jan 2019, we have to negotiate that as our next contract.

As far as the 767-400 and 787 rates being the same as 747/777 rates, that was due to an ultimatum by the CAL MEC during joint negotiations that they would walk away if that was not implemented.

Seems like the concept was explained in this thread already.

Looks like you're not getting an answer on this one, Dodo.
Maybe you'll get em next contract.

And yet there was apparently no support for banding rates in the polling. I asked. That was the answer. So here we are. We get what we asked for. OFG

Might have something to do with the capabilities of the CS100 vs the 717. The Series will be able to fly point to point anywhere in the US. The 717.... not so much.

It looks like our rates are almost the same as UAL across the board. I don't see UPS or FedEx on the charts. I guess it would make ours look too low?

I thought with all the things we are giving up, our line would at least be a significant jump above everybody else's. the other airlines barely have anything to pattern off of us with these.

I looked closely because the FAQ that came in my mailbox said we were not getting industry standard pay. I guess their definition of a standard deviation is different than a mathematicians.

UPS and Fedex are on the charts for the planes they fly. We are above United for all planes we fly except 767-400 from what I can see. Obviously they're snap-up will change that, but that's a good thing. Wages are going up as long as profit sharing doesn't dry up.

Thought the small C-100 held 110 pax and the big one held 130 ish???

Marginally above UAL, right? Like within a standard deviation?

I missed the FedEx rates. Thank you for pointing those out. I saw the planes they don't fly. Makes sense.

So, we are doing the concessions for industry-standard rates, right?

The CS100 can hold up to 125 in a high density configuration, 110 in normal seat pitch, all coach config, and 100 in a normal dual class config.

The CS300 is 145/130/120.

The pay banding at UAL skews the numbers by fleet and creates some weird comps such as how they pay the 757-300 more than the 757-200 and the A319 less than the A320, but if you break it down by DAL airplane and compare you get(1/1/2017):

777/747 = UAL+5.15%
A330/76-400 = UAL - 0.67%
76-300/757-300 = UAL + 5.27%
757-200 = UAL + 9.12%
A320 = UAL + 0.97%
A319 = UAL + 5.25%
737-800 = UAL + 4.64%
737-700 = UAL + 9.08%
MD88 = UAL + 3.37% (using UAL 73-700 rate...their lowest rate)
717 = UAL - 1.85% (using UAL 73-700 rate...their lowest rate)

UAL current rates get a 2% raise on 1/1/18 as we get a 3% increase so these comps diverge over time. Of course this does NOT factor in UAL's me-too clause but I don't know of a way to reasonably account for that, i.e., even if we got bigger increases in rates UAL would move up proportionally based on that.

As others have said here, UPS beats our TA rates on everything from 767 and below. Our TA rates exceed UPS on aircraft above 7ER.

So prove your point. Average out the rates in our industry and post them. See if our rates are just average. It will take you about 10 minutes to compile a average from UAL, AMR, SWA, AK. Those will actually be above industry average but it will do. Then show that are rates are average with those. We await your numbers!

sailing,
I remember you screaming about how SWA is not in our "category" for any comparing. Now it's ok?
AK? really? Alaska?
Let's not forget SkyWest, that would suit your purpose wouldn't it?
Cargo? They don't exist for you, do they? :)

Show me where I ever said that? They are the largest domestic airline in the US. What I have stated repeatedly is they never set the bar higher for anything. They ended up leading the industry for a time by a good gamble and chapter 11 laws.
Alaska is a key competitor in the hubs that controls the future for most of the international growth in our future.(LAX SEA) Competing with them is critical for younger pilots.

SWA and AK are not in my industry average. UAL, AA, FedEx, and UPS maybe. I would have never come to DAL if I knew I was going to settle for SWA or AK wages. Delta is (was?) a top-tier airline.

I don't need to make a spreadsheet to know these rates are no better than industry standard. Surely you are not saying they are well above the standard?

Exactly. I should have read on before I responded.

I gots to know, are you really a fan of TayTay?

"Pay Rate Comparison" presentations are only a small portion of an entire contract. Compare the ENTIRE new and improved Delta TA to the new UPS contract in relation to the Defined Benefit Plan (A Fund) paying $126K per year in retirement, 12% B Fund, no PBS scheduling BS, the new OCV vacation rules where a 2 week vacation now results in a guaranteed month off, optional annual 72 hour sick bank cash out, etc etc.

I'd like to see the profitable people movers make a strong push for reinstatement of a well-deserved A Plan vs. eyeing a profit sharing check. Spoke with a Schwab rep the other day to get the facts.... to guarantee our A Plan number of $126K per year for life after retiring at age 65 I'd have to write them a $2.53M check on the day I retired. That's a lot of profit sharing checks. Food for thought.

I don't have to eat Madagascar Hissing Cockroaches to know that some 'food' is awful. As to a DB plan - hell to the no.

That's your standard Beijing layover. Don't fall for the DB scheme. Money in your own name.

You need to post correct info on their new B plan. Most pilots will never see anything like the numbers you are posting unless they are a 30 year old new hire and even then it's far from guaranteed. It's only good to the next contract or chapter 11. There is no lookback for years of service. It only accrues going forward.