Examples or just mud slinging? Seems to be a lot of butt hurt from the admin guys.

Or maybe you can answer a question: Where would we be if the 12 had not put their feet down? Haven't really seen anybody address that despite numerous mentions.

We would have had the contract that we now have 6 months sooner. In the spring the negotiating committee outlined what they felt was achievable to the MEC if they were given the latitude to negotiate it. It's a mirror of the TA. Only when the 12 finally gave that approval did we get a TA.

Doesn't matter. As soon as you stop representing the desires of your constituents you will be in the hot seat.

We will find out soon at the C44 Meeting how ATL pilots feel about their MEC Election votes.

Personally I am in favor of recall and will vote accordingly

Just curious but since we got retro what did we lose? I'm ok The the rolling sick leave 6 months sooner

Was Bartels the NWA MEC Chairman during the merger?

the 12 prevented:

1. Profit sharing concessions
2. Additional scope relief beyond what was given

So what typically happens? Is there a wholesale housecleaning of committee chairmen and fpl staff personnel? What happened when Moak ousted JM the first time? Isn't this just a continuation of the process that saw TA1 shot down? Or is this more of an overrun of the White Walkers coming over the Wall? (GOT/NWA reference). I'm so far removed from union politics that I really don't know. I'd appreciate insight from those closer.

Don't forget all the RJs and scope relief plus profit sharing gives that we now don't have in the contract because of them... but you knew that.

You're logic is flawed. You are talking about representing the desires of your constituents. Kern voted yes on the TA; 82 percent voted yes on the TA. He is up for recall. And you're in favor of it. That makes great sense Trip7!

That was all achievable in the spring.

Kudos to MEC majority. Finish the house cleaning.

- "It is not necessary to change. Survival is not mandatory." Dr. Ed Deming

Was that in open session or are you in a non-disclosure status? I had heard a different version of what you post, but I am not in the know. If you are not under non-disclosure, you aren't either. The 12 did NOTHING any other administration hasn't done when they have a consensus. Frankly, I was a bit surprised John wasn't elected. No doubt there were ugly parts of the process, as there have been with every single election and recall. It's part of the democratic process. I find extremely distasteful the remarks of members of John's administration, and it is interesting to see the true colors of people when the chips are down--not to mention the approximate 15 seconds between the election and the announcement of the council 44 meeting agenda including the recall of the 44 f/o representatives. Very telling.

If we are talking TA innuendo, my gut feeling is the vote was probably closer to the usual 60/40, except that members of the MEC, and their constituents voted closer to my line of thinking--and its confirmed with several of the f/os I have flown with: Rather than the home run, it is more like we are finally at the point where the risk is higher than the potential reward. In the meantime, we have (as a union) ushered in a era where we are actually supporting seniority abrogation and merit based incentives. :rolleyes:

On another note, if we are talking about mergers, the elected chairman was around for the merger. I suspect there are many lessons learned to do the same and to do differently under his belt. Where was Captain Malone during the merger, and then subsequently aligned himself with DPA rather than reengage. Regardless, a merger committee would be elected and be responsible to the MEC. Additionally, even if a merger were announced TODAY, the wheels roll slowly and the audience is MUCH more in the loop with social media checks and balances--and hyperbole.

In the wise words of Donald Trump:

"WRONG"

You could say the opposite. ;)

aren't you in C66? And we know you are in favor. You were opposed to anyone who said no to anything during contract talks.

You have all this inside information, how?

Your timeline excluded the AIP documents that caused a backlash and a need for redirection. Oh, and the company pay opener.

There's a reversal of opinion. Or as the proletariat call it a "flip flop."


https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...c5acrpdsSsSTBq

the fact that the usual suspects are up in arms and melting down on facebook show me the right decision was made yesterday.

Excuse the interruption.
But, unfortunately, spring was only 9mos after being lied to by crap union leadership and house cleaning had only just begun.

What did you lose in 6mos...
Last year it was, "time value of money".
Now, it's, "retro too late for Trump rally"?

Or did your boss lose his job?

Maybe he, along with Trip 7, would prefer more concessions. Unbelievable.

More like, "we will say anything to make our side correct". Whatever side that is.

Never worked for the union. My point is the 12 did not buy us anything other then a delay. Talk to the people directly involved in the negotiations and you will get your answers.

The MEC was the farthest thing from stable last spring. I give the 12 plenty of allowances for their performance, even a 6m delay. Bashing the 12 now, after an 82% approval vote, is scapegoating for the sake of scapegoating.

I have all the answers I need, thanks. Hazzard-type spin adds nothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Schwanker (Post 2258425)

the 12 prevented:

1. Profit sharing concessions
2. Additional scope relief beyond what was given

---

Uhhh... no. The 12 did not prevent either. While they may have been against changes to scope or profit sharing (as were every other pilot on property!), the person most against profit sharing change was none other than John Malone. From his Sep 9 Chairman's letter:

"We restarted the negotiating process almost one year ago by focusing on the sections of the rejected tentative agreement the pilots found objectionable. One of the last “toxic” items to deal with is management’s proposal to modify profit sharing.
When the National Mediation Board (NMB) set the schedule to meet this week, it was prepared to continue mediated talks the following week if sufficient progress was being made. For me, and our Negotiating Committee, a “go-no go” item was management’s profit sharing proposal.
Unfortunately, management’s latest proposal retains changes to profit sharing we cannot accept and they have not addressed several of our must -have items"

Give credit to who it's due. Malone and the NC got us the agreement we have, despite the interference from the 12.

AIPs were changed. Profit sharing was always a gate keeper issue for us. JMs letter came out because of the backlash on a possible PS give.

Guess you can't put much credibility in the union structure. The one that says the membership directs the MEC and the MEC gives direction to MEC administration.

JMalone also wrote to the membership that he would not seek the MEC chair following this TA... oops. Have not seen anything from the 12, then or now, that they 'supported' a change to PS.

Delta pilots union elects new leader
Kelly Yamanouchi
December 7, 2016

The pilots union at Delta Air Lines has elected a new chairman, a surprise change in leadership coming on the heels of the approval of a new labor contract with pay raises.

The leadership committee of the Air Line Pilots Association at Delta voted to elect Bill Bartels as chairman, with a close 10-9 vote.

“Many threats remain on the horizon, both to our flying jobs and working conditions,” Bartels said in a written statement.

Bartels starts his two-year term Jan. 1, replacing John Malone in the Delta pilots union chairman slot.

Malone was elected to the position in September 2015. He filled the spot vacated by the resignation of his predecessor Mike Donatelli, following the first-ever defeat of a proposed labor deal in voting by Delta pilots. It was Malone’s second time stepping into the chairman position, after leading the Delta pilots union from 2003 to 2005.

Malone sought big pay raises in new contract talks this year, opening negotiations with a proposal for nearly 40 percent compounded pay raise over three years.

The final deal approved last week included compounded raises of 30.2 percent over four years. Of the Delta pilots casting ballots, 82 percent voted in favor.

The election of Bartels as chairman brings to the helm a longtime union officer who was a pilot at highly-unionized Northwest Airlines before the Delta-Northwest merger in 2008.

More recently, Bartels has been chairman of the Delta pilot union’s local council in Detroit.

I don't understand why Malone wasn't re-elected. Reminds me of Churchill right after WWII.

No I'm in C44.

You keep repeating that as if an MEC vote did not occur yesterday

Please explain in more detail.

It appears you're hanging an 18 month wait on a new contract on "the dirty dozen."

I'm not in the know in any way, shape, fashion, or form. I'd just like to get answers from one who continually seems to know so much more than us line swine peasants. Can you fill me in (STS) on the details that would prove your assertion above to be correct?

You will be alone with the rest of the Apple Dumpling Gang.

Russian hackers.

Do you believe your views represent a majority of pilots?

And fake news.

GZSG:
Just out of curiosity, and it's ok if you are (not judging), but will you be accepting any FPL position in Bartels' committee structure?

Profit sharing changes were NEVER an Agreement In Principle. Are you implying that?

So what? He changed his mind after being chair for a little over a year. Bartels has been in a union position for about 19 years straight. I don't get the double standard here.

I actually hope that we can come together, support, and rally behind the new MEC Chairman.

Do you have any factual information to support your claim?

Please, produce it.

And who cares about getting the same contract in the spring? Its actually better now because we get the pay retro to Jan and none of none of the concessions for almost the whole year. :cool:

Not to mention that all the offers from the company up until now had greater concessions in scope and other sections. The worst "the 12" can be blamed for is a couple months at most, and with full retro who cares. And they deserve credit for a better contract than would have happened without them.