2019 Efficiency Opportunities...
 

So what exactly is my motivation for saving Delta multiple millions of dollars a year by increasing the complexity of my operation via SET, and increasing the cabin temperature without the APU running in addition to that single engine?

I ride in enough hot cabins on maineline in my middle economy seat. I just assume enjoy my ride on my metal.

How about job security? Bargaining collateral when they want to ship our planes to someone else? Bargaining collateral for more career progression? As TW always says, we sell numbers to Delta. He's right.

If you can't understand how helping trim fat and save the company money, with nearly no additional effort on your part will benefit you long term, you should probably broaden your perspective.

With that said, most of us on the line are doing this as efficiently as possible, and this feels like we aren't being recognized for doing this already. I doubt that is the case, so don't take it personally.

I lived SET for years at XJET.

On the 700/900, it's not a big deal, except for a lack of extra fuel. Gotta be more careful with holding and reroutes. Real easy to paint yourself into a low fuel corner.

On the 200, same as above in the air, but on the ground you simply don't comply with the APU guidance spring thru fall.

No more leaving the APU running in between flights. Be a Captain and make sure the ground personnel hook up air before you leave the aircraft.

No big deal. Just different.

I focus on customer comfort, you can save all the money you want, but if the customer doesn't come back, you gained nothing.

1. It’s a regional, there is no job security. Despite hitting 12/12 on OPR in Q1.
2. Skywest is getting all the new planes, we MIGHT get a few ********* over CA tails from G7. I’ll believe it when we sign the release.
3. There won’t be any career progression, that is a pie in the sky.

TW says allot, hats, galley PAs, stretch and flexes...

I understand Delta wants to save even more money to dump into profit sharing. Why should I help maineline make more money off my back?

I already do some of this efficiency they are looking for, I am asking - what is my motivation in this exactly?

Asked and answered already. Why are you asking a second time?

Ok I know many of the users on APC just spew stupid stuff just to get a rise out of the reader maybe you are one of those guys. So I will take the bait. There are many things I disagree with but I get PAID to run my ship the way the company dictates. Simple. No stress. As far as increasing your complexity, really? You are a professional, one step at a time, easy, done and dusted.

This middle seat argument going around, seriously snowflake's? Yes we should be given the same respect as our big brothers at daddy D but we are not. BoooooHooooo! Yes it sucks but I will leave it up to the union to fix and when I get a chance voce my displeasure to management, getting stuck in a middle seat, oh well, it's part of the job I get paid to do.

FOR 900 DRIVERS: Start Rant!!
To really throw fuel on the fire YES I do rolling cross bleed starts! (when cabin temp allows) Parking brake "Set" vs "SET" does not mean bring the aircraft to a stop, ensuring the parking brake is "ON" and watch the FO start the engine. I mean why should it be any different than a rolling start with the APU on? OH but its not safe! All that added thrust my damage the A380 behind you. The added thrust which is no greater than the thrust required to taxi on a singe engine and half the break away thrust just to get the ship moving is not going to damage the plane behind you and if it does THEY ARE TO CLOSE. Don't be that 900 driver in KLGA who requested a taxi to the deice pad so he could do a cross bleed start, that is skywest stupid. But then again the Complexity may creep up and scare a few off.

BTW single engine taxi + APU saves no Fuel. 74,000 + pounds single engine requires aprox 700+LBS/hr on the operating engine just to keep it rolling add the 200 LBS/hr on the APU and you have 900LBS/hr total which is really really close to the 1000LBS/hr it takes to taxi on both engines.

Rant Over

Yes it means exactly that, bring it to a stop.

Delta is making billions despite your miniscule inefficiencies and now you are bent out if shape about being 5% more efficient? Will they be 5% nicer to you?

It’s called a response, followed by the original question not getting a satisfactory answer.

NO it does NOT. just had this conversation with a check airman. Of course among themselves they also disagree. But "set" vs "SET" means set for the situation. Bleeds "set" does not mean bleeds on or off. Parking brake "set" does not mean parking brake "ON' or "OFF". Parking SET on the other hand would mean "ON"

I dunno bro... "beacons on brakes released."

"brakes set you're clear to disconnect"

setting brakes essentially means they're on, just saying... bleeds set means they're configured properly for a given situation.

That’s an opinion statement to which you can form your own.

I run my ship in a safe, secure, legal, and only then efficient manner at my discretion. I get paid by the contract, where is this requirement in my contract? Oh it’s not? Where is my incentive to do this then? It’s does nothing to benefit me.

Your snowflake flame throwing put aside; this place is trending towards taking more and more, while giving less. All that despite doing better and better. Why should I go out of my way to help them get an extra 5%?

Absolutely spot on. Against SOP, yes. But spot on.a

It should be CROSS BLEED START:
Boost Pump.......ON
L ENG START......PUSH
THR LEVER.........IDLE
Complete.

I'll jump on your side when you show me in either the contact or company manual where you have the Discretion to decide what is or is not efficient? We get paid to operate according to the contract And company policies and guidelines.

You can be as salty as you want BUT our contract does not leave the Efficiency decision up to me nor does it leave it up to you. We get paid within the guide lines of our contract to follow the company rules.

LCP's are sometimes wrong about things, and if there's disagreement between them about a certain issue then that should be a hint that this issue is a prime candidate for a LCP being wrong about it.

Given that at all levels of training we're taught to do the crossbleed start stopped, and that at every other checklist where the brake is answered "set" it's obviously supposed to be on (unless you think it's at our discretion to leave it off at the shutdown checklist) that points to threre being an oversight in the consistency of the response scheme, and clearly "set" means "on" for the parking brake in general. It probably stems from that at some places where we're supposed to check the brake is on, the EICAS is not powered and there is no place to read "on," so all that's available to us is the handle position; so "set" it is.

If you're still not sure, why don't you write the Fleet Manager about it?

(Also all caps does not mean what you say. It means that that is the actual switch/button label or indication.)

It comes down to what the meaning of "Set" is. Unlike the preflight expanded checklist the cross bleed parking brake "set" DOES NOT say "PARKING BRAKE ON" advisory message posted.

For 30 years I have been taught SOP and parking brake set is how the captain wants it set, either ON or OFF depending on the situation. Yes the Preferred method is to taxi APU ON Right Engine ON. We did have a brief period of time where it was encouraged to single engine taxi APU off but I was told too many guys were starting the engine at idle giving hotter than normal starts.

Hope someone can find something that says different I would be more than happy say I was wrong.

FOM 8-81
“A single engine taxi in and out preferred.”

7/9 CFM 3-5
It lacks “should”, “will”, “shall”, or “must”, meaning this is entirely optional.

I care more about my crew and passengers' comfort as well as my FO's workload than Delta's profit sharing.

If Delta wants us to care, give us profit sharing. Before all you flamers jump on me, I know the odds of that are about as bad as the odds of flow. I know management reads these though, so maybe they'll take it to heart. It's all cost and no benefit to us to work harder or cook ourselves/passengers being stingy with the APU or SET.

you’re 100% right. Can’t wait to see the slide on the crew room tv touting the benefit to profit sharing, like last time this came up. How insensitive and insulting.

Are there two different versions of the memo going around? Mine says "Although a large expense, we must always remember that customer satisfaction is a key driver to Endeavor’s growth. Use your APU wisely to remain on-time and keep your cabin comfortable." A lot of people here are acting as if it prioritizes APU savings over pax comfort though, which is the opposite.

That’s one paragraph in a memo, that in my opinion, sets a different tone. Also it’s my opinion that a lot of money can be saved at the gate with external air and power promptly hooked up.

You'll notice in the preflight procedure the response is "set" where on the next like that is explained as "PARKING BRAKE ON advisory message posted," which shows that for the parking brake "set" means "on."

Love this thread
 

I cannot tell you how many times I have sat I in a middle seat on a DH in LGA sweating like a pig because some DL CA refused to turn on the APU until 10 prior to push.... I just sat in thought what a cheap selfish Bas^^^. Letting all the pax die back here so you can get a few extra coins in your pocket. I also refuse to single eng taxi especially in busy airports why because if I clip a wing because someone was starting an engine is the company going to stand behind me and say “ oh I understand you are trying to save fuel for DL profit sharing!” Why should I do anything extra if it does not benefit anyone at 9E other then MGT or DL. I have been around long enough to know that we are a contractor and no matter what we do it just takes a OO price cut for all of us to be the next CA.... no matter what are numbers are because the most important number is cost per seat mile.

The lack of professionalism in this thread is disturbing.

You guys are transmitting on guuuuaaaaarrrrrd.

Being a pro myself
 

I don’t think there is a lack of professionalism, I think it maybe a lack of caring after we have given the best possible performance to DL and they want more and have not given anything in return. I am not drinking from the same blue koolaide. At one time held the same do it all for the company attitude, then the reality of life sunk in that at the end of the day it’s all profits and we are not a family. So if I don’t tote the company line do not say I am unprofessional. I am a realist and know my place in the pecking order. I am sure some day you will remove your rose colored glasses and see the same thing

So start the APU at a time that ensures pax comfort, just as the memo says. What exactly are you arguing against?

Why would you clip a wing if someone's starting an engine?

It's almost as if the suggested changes reduce other airlines' price advantage against us and thereby reduce this risk. If this is what concerns you, why are you suggesting to operate in a more expensive way?

So what happened with the target landing time
 

Hopefully this will be just like the “ Target landing time” memo
Do you not have a mind of your own? I am going to operate the plane like I have always have. I am always safe & on time if you think of us doing everything exactly as DL wishes or even better will get you anywhere I have a bridge in NY I can give you a nice offer on.

?? None of this is a reply to what I asked...

You are making choices based upon unrealistic expectations. Delta owes you nothing beyond contractual obligations. They have contracted you to do a job. Profits from that contract are obliged to shareholders. If you go through this career as I’ll do it like I always have cause I’m safe,and I’m always on time. You are missing the keys to a fantastic future, possibly putting yourself in jeopardy. Guess what? It ain’t about you. Try some servitude and professionalism and you might get out of a regional. What an emotional rollercoaster you display. I know they don’t teach how to be mature in ground school but you need to learn it somewhere.

Years ago, at the old company, we had a crew distracted by a single engine taxi wander onto an active runway with an aircraft taking off. If that had resulted in an accident, would the FAA have come down on SET?

Well said. I second this statement.

Also, mainline averages one attempted takeoff with only one engine running, per year. I can kind of see that other person’s point but perhaps he was a bit extreme. Point taken though, distractions definitely clip wings.

Someone has been reading their Delta rules of the road! Kudos to you. You are a gentleman AND a scholar.

Theyre in the swa study material too, been in there since the 80s though.

You forgot the word "indentured" :D

Is SET apu off taxi in or out?

At least that won't be a problem for us, "Takeoff Config OK" includes both engines running as a criteria for posting the advisory message.

The MD-88 takeoff config warning does not include that. It presupposes that the pilot has verified both engines are running and you'd like to check all of the other system configurations.

Remember sir back in the day the captain did all the engine starts, so I guess someone not paying attention to taxiing the airplane while ensuring a proper start could lead to a taxi mishap. Having said that on the 900 there is absolutely no difference between starting an engine with the APU while taxiing and starting the engine via a cross bleed. The Captain focuses on taxiing FO starts the engine. :eek:

I know for a very very short period a cross bleed start was preferred. However, too many pilots were forgetting to bump the thrust on the operating engine to 67+% N2 but instead starting the engine at flight idle. The engine trends were coming back with higher than normal temps 700deg+ on the starts.

If you guys are correct and the proper method for a cross bleed start is to bring the aircraft to a dead stop, alert the A380 behind you that hey look out I am doing a cross bleed start, which BTW requires less thrust than it takes to taxi the aircraft on one engine than someone in the flight department needs to get out an fly the line a little more because that policy is plane stupid.:mad: