Open post to old company
05-06-2021, 05:56 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,767
Open post to old company
Hey I don't know what kind of nutjobs you got coming in here hassling you about this flow stuff. At least one of them, Judge something or other is another shyguy type who just trolls around trolling. He started his account 6 days ago or whenever this mess started? Couple things.
One: Miss you guys. I don't miss the company EDV when I look at my Delta job but I sure miss the people. I hope you guys get a flow and I told my reps as much.
Two: I'm sorry you all got dragged into this. Delta is violating our scope as much as they want, and they're trying to make this fight dirty. They didn't want to give us a flowdown when they were going to let 2558 of us go, and now, they want to give it to us when we don't need it (hiring 3,500 pilots). Delta keeps buying widebodies for other airlines, and keeps telling us we can't get back to a 50/50 split on the international market. We're just trying to get get back to 50-50 and using every bit of leverage we can. No one meant to poke you guys with it.
Three: at the same time this fight is going on (which has been going on for more than a year) delta has this last chance to get you guys the 170's or else Skywest will get a monopoly on them. I hope that turns into a west coast base for you all. Also, it'll be fun to bring back the backwards epaulette FO's again right? (Kid pilots, ask your captains) I apologize, there's a lot of old Mesaba jokes in me, it's a rich tradition.
Four: The avro's are coming back. That's confirmed finally. I know right? The avro has autothrottles and a horn too! When the old timers talk about the avro, hit that primary button on the display control panel, it makes the MFS a primary screen too and then it looks like you've got four engines. Anytime anyone talks about the Avro, even on short final, hit the primary screen, it's a rule. If it isn't in the book, write it in lipstick in the back.
Five: I promise, this is all going to make sense in a couple months. I can't promise you every guy posting on here is trolling, some mainline guys hate regional guys, we all know it and it can't be helped. Some idiots may just be idiots always looking to hassle guys. Just know, if the flow happens, or you just get hired over here, I'm buying beer first, and I don't wanna hear any of your crap that you just got a green slip so let you buy one. It was done for me, I'm going to do it for you, and if we're at an all inclusive I'm going to pick up all your beers and your food... because it's free and I'm funny.
Listen to NJ your MEC chair, that kid has been trying to run through walls for you guys as long as I've known him. JS, your lawyer might be your best lawyer muscle in the business. Try to remember this is just the internet and no one acts like this in real life. Someday we'll get the Avro's at mainline and retire on them. Until then, miss you all, love you all, just keep flying safe and when you start complaining about this stuff in the cockpit know I'm right there in the jumpseat breaking in to tell you dirty jokes. If you have the chance to grow a moustache like TW do it at least once and show up in his office with it. Hopefully we'll flow you so fast you won't have time to grow it.
One: Miss you guys. I don't miss the company EDV when I look at my Delta job but I sure miss the people. I hope you guys get a flow and I told my reps as much.
Two: I'm sorry you all got dragged into this. Delta is violating our scope as much as they want, and they're trying to make this fight dirty. They didn't want to give us a flowdown when they were going to let 2558 of us go, and now, they want to give it to us when we don't need it (hiring 3,500 pilots). Delta keeps buying widebodies for other airlines, and keeps telling us we can't get back to a 50/50 split on the international market. We're just trying to get get back to 50-50 and using every bit of leverage we can. No one meant to poke you guys with it.
Three: at the same time this fight is going on (which has been going on for more than a year) delta has this last chance to get you guys the 170's or else Skywest will get a monopoly on them. I hope that turns into a west coast base for you all. Also, it'll be fun to bring back the backwards epaulette FO's again right? (Kid pilots, ask your captains) I apologize, there's a lot of old Mesaba jokes in me, it's a rich tradition.
Four: The avro's are coming back. That's confirmed finally. I know right? The avro has autothrottles and a horn too! When the old timers talk about the avro, hit that primary button on the display control panel, it makes the MFS a primary screen too and then it looks like you've got four engines. Anytime anyone talks about the Avro, even on short final, hit the primary screen, it's a rule. If it isn't in the book, write it in lipstick in the back.
Five: I promise, this is all going to make sense in a couple months. I can't promise you every guy posting on here is trolling, some mainline guys hate regional guys, we all know it and it can't be helped. Some idiots may just be idiots always looking to hassle guys. Just know, if the flow happens, or you just get hired over here, I'm buying beer first, and I don't wanna hear any of your crap that you just got a green slip so let you buy one. It was done for me, I'm going to do it for you, and if we're at an all inclusive I'm going to pick up all your beers and your food... because it's free and I'm funny.
Listen to NJ your MEC chair, that kid has been trying to run through walls for you guys as long as I've known him. JS, your lawyer might be your best lawyer muscle in the business. Try to remember this is just the internet and no one acts like this in real life. Someday we'll get the Avro's at mainline and retire on them. Until then, miss you all, love you all, just keep flying safe and when you start complaining about this stuff in the cockpit know I'm right there in the jumpseat breaking in to tell you dirty jokes. If you have the chance to grow a moustache like TW do it at least once and show up in his office with it. Hopefully we'll flow you so fast you won't have time to grow it.
05-06-2021, 06:56 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,077
This post was highly needed over here. Definitely seems like a battle royal between 9E and Delta...even though it shouldn't be! Oh and I'm a Blue moon guy!
Highly appreciate the post!
Can't believe how much dal is outsourcing international. Given it saved them during this down turn but still would rather have a 50/50 split
Highly appreciate the post!
Can't believe how much dal is outsourcing international. Given it saved them during this down turn but still would rather have a 50/50 split
05-06-2021, 07:35 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 309
Thanks for the laughs and the moral support. I (and I think a lot of guys here) feel really torn between the possibility of a better shot at getting hired at mainline and not wanting to blow up scope. I for one really hate being used as a political football...
05-06-2021, 07:48 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,240
Originally Posted by flyingfiddler
Thanks for the laughs and the moral support. I (and I think a lot of guys here) feel really torn between the possibility of a better shot at getting hired at mainline and not wanting to blow up scope. I for one really hate being used as a political football...
05-06-2021, 08:14 AM
#5
Ref +8
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: North by Midwest
Posts: 383
I might be bold in saying this, but I think the majority of the 9E pilots feel this way and understand what’s going on - we are looking for contractual career progression on our own merit, not at the expense of continued scope violations to our brothers and sisters at DALPA.
DAL seems to be trying to merge the 9E PFA campaign and DLs 35 RJ furlough mitigation LOA. They are two different things, and should be negotiated as such. No concessions on either side of the fence.
DAL seems to be trying to merge the 9E PFA campaign and DLs 35 RJ furlough mitigation LOA. They are two different things, and should be negotiated as such. No concessions on either side of the fence.
05-06-2021, 08:29 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,767
Originally Posted by flywithjohn
I might be bold in saying this, but I think the majority of the 9E pilots feel this way and understand what’s going on - we are looking for contractual career progression on our own merit, not at the expense of continued scope violations to our brothers and sisters at DALPA.
DAL seems to be trying to merge the 9E PFA campaign and DLs 35 RJ furlough mitigation LOA. They are two different things, and should be negotiated as such. No concessions on either side of the fence.
DAL seems to be trying to merge the 9E PFA campaign and DLs 35 RJ furlough mitigation LOA. They are two different things, and should be negotiated as such. No concessions on either side of the fence.
One: the Company (in this case parent Company DAL) is going to set the messaging for the court and you cant fight that and win, for the union you gotta find ways to use managements words against them. "Ya know, management has always maintained that we, the Association, have no input on hiring. We are happy Delta has changed their minds and look forward to our brave new world where DALPA has say in hiring, anyway, about those wide bodies." Or something like that. Or maybe, "we are glad delta sees this as such an integrated part of the future of the airline, and we agree the Association has all rights and duties to negotiate our scope at every level, widebody to RJ, so about those widebodies."
Two: let the Company go in there and make the insane argument the flow up and the flow down are connected in this contractual bridge between to companies and two contracts, so all four sides must have a voice. Then have NJ walk in there, sip his diet pop (soda), and say "so about those wide bodies".
I understand its wise to sow chaos in the union employee ranks, be it your own employees or a wholly owned employee group. I don't think this will work, and if that means me hanging around B55 with a cupcake stand and an AMA poster to make sure EDV guys know Delta pilots as a whole arent trying to screw them, im being paid to do nothing, its not like I don't have time.
05-06-2021, 09:50 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,648
Originally Posted by theUpsideDown
Hey I don't know what kind of nutjobs you got coming in here hassling you about this flow stuff. At least one of them, Judge something or other is another shyguy type who just trolls around trolling. He started his account 6 days ago or whenever this mess started? Couple things.
One: Miss you guys. I don't miss the company EDV when I look at my Delta job but I sure miss the people. I hope you guys get a flow and I told my reps as much.
Two: I'm sorry you all got dragged into this. Delta is violating our scope as much as they want, and they're trying to make this fight dirty. They didn't want to give us a flowdown when they were going to let 2558 of us go, and now, they want to give it to us when we don't need it (hiring 3,500 pilots). Delta keeps buying widebodies for other airlines, and keeps telling us we can't get back to a 50/50 split on the international market. We're just trying to get get back to 50-50 and using every bit of leverage we can. No one meant to poke you guys with it.
Three: at the same time this fight is going on (which has been going on for more than a year) delta has this last chance to get you guys the 170's or else Skywest will get a monopoly on them. I hope that turns into a west coast base for you all. Also, it'll be fun to bring back the backwards epaulette FO's again right? (Kid pilots, ask your captains) I apologize, there's a lot of old Mesaba jokes in me, it's a rich tradition.
Four: The avro's are coming back. That's confirmed finally. I know right? The avro has autothrottles and a horn too! When the old timers talk about the avro, hit that primary button on the display control panel, it makes the MFS a primary screen too and then it looks like you've got four engines. Anytime anyone talks about the Avro, even on short final, hit the primary screen, it's a rule. If it isn't in the book, write it in lipstick in the back.
Five: I promise, this is all going to make sense in a couple months. I can't promise you every guy posting on here is trolling, some mainline guys hate regional guys, we all know it and it can't be helped. Some idiots may just be idiots always looking to hassle guys. Just know, if the flow happens, or you just get hired over here, I'm buying beer first, and I don't wanna hear any of your crap that you just got a green slip so let you buy one. It was done for me, I'm going to do it for you, and if we're at an all inclusive I'm going to pick up all your beers and your food... because it's free and I'm funny.
Listen to NJ your MEC chair, that kid has been trying to run through walls for you guys as long as I've known him. JS, your lawyer might be your best lawyer muscle in the business. Try to remember this is just the internet and no one acts like this in real life. Someday we'll get the Avro's at mainline and retire on them. Until then, miss you all, love you all, just keep flying safe and when you start complaining about this stuff in the cockpit know I'm right there in the jumpseat breaking in to tell you dirty jokes. If you have the chance to grow a moustache like TW do it at least once and show up in his office with it. Hopefully we'll flow you so fast you won't have time to grow it.
One: Miss you guys. I don't miss the company EDV when I look at my Delta job but I sure miss the people. I hope you guys get a flow and I told my reps as much.
Two: I'm sorry you all got dragged into this. Delta is violating our scope as much as they want, and they're trying to make this fight dirty. They didn't want to give us a flowdown when they were going to let 2558 of us go, and now, they want to give it to us when we don't need it (hiring 3,500 pilots). Delta keeps buying widebodies for other airlines, and keeps telling us we can't get back to a 50/50 split on the international market. We're just trying to get get back to 50-50 and using every bit of leverage we can. No one meant to poke you guys with it.
Three: at the same time this fight is going on (which has been going on for more than a year) delta has this last chance to get you guys the 170's or else Skywest will get a monopoly on them. I hope that turns into a west coast base for you all. Also, it'll be fun to bring back the backwards epaulette FO's again right? (Kid pilots, ask your captains) I apologize, there's a lot of old Mesaba jokes in me, it's a rich tradition.
Four: The avro's are coming back. That's confirmed finally. I know right? The avro has autothrottles and a horn too! When the old timers talk about the avro, hit that primary button on the display control panel, it makes the MFS a primary screen too and then it looks like you've got four engines. Anytime anyone talks about the Avro, even on short final, hit the primary screen, it's a rule. If it isn't in the book, write it in lipstick in the back.
Five: I promise, this is all going to make sense in a couple months. I can't promise you every guy posting on here is trolling, some mainline guys hate regional guys, we all know it and it can't be helped. Some idiots may just be idiots always looking to hassle guys. Just know, if the flow happens, or you just get hired over here, I'm buying beer first, and I don't wanna hear any of your crap that you just got a green slip so let you buy one. It was done for me, I'm going to do it for you, and if we're at an all inclusive I'm going to pick up all your beers and your food... because it's free and I'm funny.
Listen to NJ your MEC chair, that kid has been trying to run through walls for you guys as long as I've known him. JS, your lawyer might be your best lawyer muscle in the business. Try to remember this is just the internet and no one acts like this in real life. Someday we'll get the Avro's at mainline and retire on them. Until then, miss you all, love you all, just keep flying safe and when you start complaining about this stuff in the cockpit know I'm right there in the jumpseat breaking in to tell you dirty jokes. If you have the chance to grow a moustache like TW do it at least once and show up in his office with it. Hopefully we'll flow you so fast you won't have time to grow it.
05-06-2021, 10:12 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 309
This whole thing is turning into a mess. I'm worried about us getting caught in the middle of a really ugly contract fight and getting the short end of the stick, possibly even jeopardizing Endeavor's existence. I hope I'm wrong, but this seems to be going downhill fast...
05-06-2021, 10:29 AM
#10
New Hire
Joined APC: May 2021
Posts: 6
Hi all:
Very new to the 121 world, but old hat in the world of corporate negotiations and deal making outside of aviation.
I have a class date later this month at EDV that I'm very much looking forward to.
Is there a non-biased place one can keep up with the latest and greatest negotiations happening with EDV and Delta? The forums are great, but it tends to devolve to name calling and rumors quickly.
Thanks.
Very new to the 121 world, but old hat in the world of corporate negotiations and deal making outside of aviation.
I have a class date later this month at EDV that I'm very much looking forward to.
Is there a non-biased place one can keep up with the latest and greatest negotiations happening with EDV and Delta? The forums are great, but it tends to devolve to name calling and rumors quickly.
Thanks.
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