It's supply and demand. I'm not saying it's right, just that they can get away with it.

My hope is that no one comes to Endeavor as a new hire until changes are made.

If their goal is to keep operating Endeavor then they will have to give back to get anyone coming here.

I share your hopes Bartok, but I'm more worried that if 9E cannot attract anyone Delta will just throw out the idea that we keep 200s and stick with the original fleet plan...shrinking us to 81 aircraft and if that doesn't stop the bleeding...Comair 2.0. I think they'd do this to us before changing the working conditions at DCI regionals.

BTW straight from the MEM school house....15 new hire prospects interviewed, only 1 accepted is the word from Weldon. SSP only 2 out of 7 got offers in last interview group.

I bet that guy/gal that took the job offer won't show up for class either...

I bet you are right

Is Delta really paying attention to 9E's staffing? Is Delta amenable to sprucing up the place for new hires to come?

Sounds about right. When Delta starts interviewing the former Gulfstream guys with no education, very few of them will probably get hired. The interviewers are probably extremely skeptical of the guys with no post high school education even if they are interviewing them below everyone else's qualifications. I am sure a few will get through just to give hope, but the majority probably will not.

Depends on what the plan is.

If they plan on shrinking us, then no.

If they plan on using Endeavor as a main Regional feed, then yes.

If Endeavor determined that only one was qualified / offered a job, and he / she accepted, then they are batting 100%.

I don't think it will take much to get people here though.

1. Offer SSP for new-hires
2. Add years to the FO pay cap
3. Give back 150% pickup

This will get butts in class.

You misread it. Only one person accepted the job when offered.

They did hire one without a degree recently that I know of.

Why are the flows held to the standard of having a degree then? I would figure flows would be the exception not SSP candidates.

Because of the wording of the flow.

Same reason Compass can flow without a degree.

Interesting. I did not know that, thanks.

I agree those three will attract more folks here. And I think #1 is coming. I got an email a few weeks ago inviting me to apply to Endeavor (not realizing I already work there...thought of having some fun with that but decided not to) and in the invite it stated that Endeavor would offer a path to Delta by offering a preferential interview. Now could that be a lie? Sure it can as the SSP only applies now to captains and those who were on property when the concessions went into effect. I'd like to think optimistically that they will extend the SSP to all and new hires. Now the SSP needs to work better than 50% job offer rate too or still no one will come here. As for #2 and #3, I hope you are right, but I think getting that back would be overly optimistic.

I think guys at the top need to realize the value of more money at the start and compounded interest. Instead we have these j holes voting in huge pay at the top and accepting less at the bottom. It is all backwards in my opinion.

I don't know. They are breaking the language of the bridge/SSP agreement by doing so. It's ripe for a lawsuit if a 9E guy has the balls to go for it.

All the contract improvements we can think up won't mean squat unless there is visible movement in the senority list. They can extend the SSP to new hires all they want, but as long as the hiring is to stop the bleeding from the bottom it will never matter and I think the new hires will be smart enough to ask questions before they accept a position. Once they learn they have to be a CA for a year and that there are little to no upgrades then common sense will tell them that the SSP is worthless. I think we will have to show movement before anyone decides to come here or the firm announcement of keeping air frames needs to be made. I'm surprised the status-quo here has attracted anyone at all. Knowing what I know now, the only thing that would get me to come here (with the present status of our airline) over Compass would be a Delta senority number, which we all know won't happen. How they expect to hire with the most relevant public announcement being an 81 plane fleet is beyond me. The fact that they want to hire 400 tells me they have other plans in the works, but aren't going to make them public.

It doesn't matter how many people accept the job offer if they don't show up to class.

What was his background? Hopefully not high school to Gulfsteam to Pinnacle. Did he serve in the military?

I know of one guy from XJ.

He is stellar!

Could not ask for a better candidate.

This ^^^

Dangling carrots will mean squat if those new hires find themselves on the street after all the 200s are gone. I doubt new hires will be that short sighted, since fleet reduction plan is public and official.

We were just told in Ground school today that it is official we are keeping at least 73 200's. But I do not see a memo or anything posted anywhere. So if anyone sees anything official to confirm this please post a link. He was talking about how they just had a lunch with some higher ups so he might be just stating what he heard at the lunch which could just be a rumor.

That's good to know. He better be since he doesn't meet the required minimums that everyone else does.

Back in 2008, one of the top execs (FF) came into our ground school class and told us we were just about to secure additional CRJ flying with other majors. Still waiting for that one.....:rolleyes:

Unfortunately ALPA got it worked into our BK TA that we cannot strike, or vote out ALPA. Massive conflict of interest that we voted right on through.

Official? I wonder why we haven't seen anything in a written memo about it yet. If they are telling potential new hires the new revised revised fleet plan, then I could see a few more people coming here if it is truth that we aren't shrinking to a 81 fleet airline. But the ultimate question will be is where are those other 70 plus 200's that we aren't losing going to be parked from? or is this all just smoke and mirrors???

Everyone needs to remember that Delta's scope clause only allows 115 50 seaters. So someone is going to have to lose quite a few. Bonesbrigade, that is what Acessential was talking about...

Yes you can. You can ask for someone who actually meets the published Delta pilot requirements.

They are published in the vault letter. And didn't you do the same thing? You didn't meet pinnacle's "published mins" so you used their agreement (vault letter) with Jet U or ATP to get around that? Sounds like a pot vs kettle argument. And don't say "it's different because anybody could have gone to ATP. Anyone with $30k laying around maybe. Just as anyone can come to Endeavor, upgrade, and be SSP eligible. We are hiring now shall I write you a LOR? ;)

No, because Pinnacle's requirements at that moment in time were listed on their webpage with a clear distinction that other options were available. It was public info. Where's the vault letter? Why isn't that public? Delta's website does not make any hints at pilots who accept concessions can come in without degrees.


Here's my proof:

Northwest Airlink :: Operated by Pinnacle Airlines Inc. (Northwest Airlink :: Operated by Pinnacle Airlines Inc.)

Minimum Hiring Requirements:

• 1000 hours total flight time (Preferred)
• 200 hours multi-engine time (Preferred)
• 100 hours instrument (max 20 hours simulator - Preferred)
• Part 121 Operation Experience (Preferred)
• Commercial pilot certificate with a multi-engine airplane and instrument rating
• ATP or ATP-Written
• Current First class medical with First Class Privileges
• Valid passport
• Valid driver's license
• FCC license
• Legally authorized to work in the United States
• Minimum age 21
• High school diploma



Applicants Please Note: If you do not meet these minimum requirements, check out CAE’s Jump Start course (a program designed for Pinnacle Airlines) which allows you an opportunity to get hired on as a First Officer with Pinnacle Airlines with lower minimum hours. Please visit CAE’s web page for more details.

Applicants Also Note: You may want to consider jumpstarting your aviation career with the Jet University First Officer Program. There is no faster, more efficient or cost effective way to launch your professional airline career. Please visit Jet University’s web page for more details.

Why do you have that page saved? Delete it. Let it go man. It was a good move to bail out of the mess known as Endeavor. Stop coming back to the regional forums. It should feel great to not have to worry about that ****show anymore.

Lol, you're so funny man!

I'm going to have coffee with a couple of my Northwest buddies and have a good ole laugh!

If a survey was taken of the top 10% of Delta Pilots, I believe there would be dozen or more who do not have a college degree.

Ftroop, what is your analysis of Endeavor right now?

O boy here we go.
http://everydaygamers.com/wp-content...1267740343.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/445e9e3e2...lqp8o1_250.gif

Endeavor needs to get past the C.R.I.S.I.S. status on APC threads. With a few vocal committed detractors, that seems unlikely. Coffee, Rumor, Innuendo, Speculation,Inference and Scandal is their methodology. Coupled with a heavy dose of emotional knee jerk reactions and statements that are nothing more than "glittering generalities," and implied threats, the only saving grace for Endeavor is that many of the demeaning comments are now being aimed at other regionals such as PSA.

That ends the BS part of this missive. Now what will happen at Endeavor ?

In my OPINION the Legacy airlines that own Regional Airlines will eventually blend (staple if you want) the two together. The regionals are no longer the little prop airplanes that fly folks into hubs from the hinterland. In some cases the regional airplanes are more sophisticated (technically complicated) then some of the legacy equipment. Certainly many of the routes are no longer "regional."

From a management standpoint redundancy (two airlines) of HR, Management, Maintenance , etc. is expensive . Centralized control is loss and the possibility of lower safety standards is a threat.

Now that the majors are hiring it seems redundant to interview / screen applicants for the regional then interview / screen those same applicants for the major/ legacy. An airline is a "social entity" with published standards, and for lack of a better word - an "ethos (character) " I would rather advance an employee who has lived for six to eight with that ethos, safety standards, training and screening (simulators) then take a chance on hiring a stranger from another company.

Now the pundits will say, "Some of the regional pilots are not qualified to go to the majors - no college degree, etc. " My response is how can a CRJ900 Captain with no degree not be qualified to be a 717 first officer ? The degree is a screening tool (during hiring) and has nothing to do with flying airplanes. Back in the 60s when a majority of airline pilots had been WWII pilots you will find the majority of them had gone through the Aviation Cadet program and had no college education.

It would have to start with fences and stapling. I used the word blend earlier. It will take time and more then a few "below standard" pilots will fall to the side in the upgrade / training process. Eventually the former regional pilots will mostly be "major" FOs and many former major FOs will be CRJ/ERJ captains. Pay scales will have to be renegotiated.

I believe this is Delta's eventual goal for Endeavor. IF the pilot shortage becomes worse the process will be accelerated.

My personal thanks to MrMustache for educating me. I had no idea who "Fanboy" was until I Googled it. I do know however what it's like being shot at. I love popcorn.

Ummm, ok. One person makes a reasonable post, the other a non sequitur. Do you even know FTroop's credentials????

Has anyone seen this "vault letter" ? To the best of my knowledge, Delta denies it's existence. How does your association enforce an agreement that no one has seen? Has it's alleged terms been violated thus far in the recruitment process? How would one know?

Honest question ... not being a smart alec.

Why do we have Doctors? Why do we have added requirements to be members of the Bar? Nurse Practitioners, in my experience, are better diagnosticians because they take more time with "their patient." Lawyers used to have no entry requirements other than Bar Exam passage.

Could a CRJ Captain out fly a WWII Cadet? It isn't truly a valid point. Many WWII Cadets were unable to find jobs in aviation due to their lack of education.

Restrictions which limit the pool of qualified applicants result in less supply, which drives up demand and prices. While a Nurse Practitioner is worth $75K to $90K (around here) Doctors routinely earn $125K to $250 for the same skill set. If the Doctor further specializes into something highly technical, like anesthesiology, they can be worth $350K to $500K.

Could you or I do that job with a good database and some decent technical training? Sure. But, is that how the World works?

Where I come from a $180,000 a year job is still a big deal. It is worth the effort to prepare oneself for that opportunity. As professionals, one path to increase pay is to increase the minimum entry requirements. Management wants to lower costs and lower the standards to hold this position. They would hire $10 an hour rampers to fly airplanes, if they could. ALPA harmed this profession with the Pinnacle Bridge Agreement. Lee Moak (although I admire much of what he has done) and Capt. Wychor worked to lower standards in this profession.

and if you think I'm wrong, Southwest is an excellent airline.