9E (Endeavor) or BK
 

Which one should I choose?

I am currently considering employment at both and trying to decide which offer to accept. I would appreciate your input.

At endeavor my first half decade I could earn $22,500, $29,700, $31,500 & $33,300 per year and every year thereafter working full time.

If I accept a job at BK (burger king) with the proposed $15/hr min wage and work full time I would earn $31,200 per year, which after five years would earn $5,700 more than being an airline pilot.

In addition, I would work less and be home more. Full time at BK 40 hrs a week and home every day vs being gone from home an average of 78 hrs per week at 9e. Sleep in my own bed vs a 3 star hotel every night, get paid breaks to eat fast food vs running between flights to pickup fast food, extra pay and reduced hours for holidays (and still be home before & after work on holidays), and $100,000 less education debt.

Best of all, a faster opportunity to upgrade to manager and actually career progression and opportunity!

I think I've made up my mind what career path would be best, but what do you think?


Additionally, why is there a shortage again?

Depends how old you are.

5-6 years at pcl:
Not a ton of money.

Land a mainline job at American/DL/UAL by 36-38:
~$6,247,500 in hourly wages by retirement.
~$1,000,000 in 401K match

$853,000 at BK.

I'd take endeavor.

Don't forget the free crew meals at BK.

Good point, a job at a mainline is better than working at a fast food place.

That doesn't dispute the fact that you can make more money and have a better quality of life your first 10 years out of high school working at a fast food restaurant than going to school to become an airline pilot.

The point I am making is that its no surprise we are preparing for a shortage of qualified pilots at regionals. I'm not honestly advocating for potential pilots to become fry cooks, but to realize the sad state this career is in and why we have a shortage.

Many who are interested in a career as a pilot will decide to pursue other more promising careers, which are not so equally comparable to fast food.

6th year pay 9E FO $62,000. Granted I averaged 105 hrs credit/mo. and had a 6,000 bonus including per diem.

Sure, its possible (and likely with our current staffing) some will fly more than 75hrs a month and work more than 4 days a week (I haven't had more than 11 days off since the bankruptcy, not by choice) and therefore earn more.

But can't fast food employees work overtime too? I was using base full time wages to make an argument that we are underpaid when you can consider a minimum wage uneducated employee to be in roughly the same tax bracket, and that sad fact is a big reason why we see a shortage of regional airline pilots.

Congrats on the bonus, how much would you have earned with the pre-bankruptcy contract?

No you got $6k in hush money to sign away two years of your longevity and you're working at 4th year pay.

Better check your figures there.

Any new hire at 9E will not be around long enough to top out the FO pay scale. It seems as though people are forgetting that 9E will be losing their 200s. Whether it's 1,2,3 or 4 years away...Delta will get rid of them and there's not enough regional growth opportunities as a DCI carrier to recover from that loss unless Delta dumps a current carrier. Mainline scope limits DCI growth...it's pretty much maxed out as it is.

Can you get me an "IN" at Delta? I ask only because you speak with such authority that you must be in a position of power and knowledge at Delta Air Lines.

And how much are you making next year? You do know that bribe money was a one time deal? And what happens to that credit with FAR 117 reducing the amount you can credit per month? I hope you aren't budgeting for 105hrs. Considering I am making less than $62,000 as an eighth year (all reserve or CDO, AKA guarantee every month) captain this year, I call BS. Then again I don't count the 6K in bribe money (that was actually only 5,200 into the 401K) or the pittance of per diem.

You people and your mistrust.

39*105*12= 49,140
1.7*300*12= 6,120
Bonus/ Hush money or whatever = 6,000
Total = 61,260 Add in 150% pickup here and there and you have a little over 62,000.

Take home is a little more than 3400/mo.
And yes, I have company HRA, Dental, Vision, 401k, and claim 0 on my w-4.

If I lived in base I could probably have worked the system a little better. And, no I don't budget for anything over 75 hrs and obviously wouldn't take into account a one-time payout.

Last I checked there was more regional carriers than Endeavor out there. Expand your horizons.

Yet you are doing exactly that in your numbers above. Let me help you out.
12 * 75 * $37= $33,200. That's it. Your pretax budget is $33,200. Can you get more as a lineholder? Yes. Can you be certain of how much? No. Same for per diem, besides that is to make up some of the higher costs of having to eat out on the road. It is not a supplement, bonus, commission or whatever you want to call it to add to salary.
105 credit every month is spending a LOT of time on the road away from family. Excuse me for wanting to sleep in my own bed and cook my own meal once in a while. Companies love guys like you. Willing to bust your ass to make up for substandard pay instead of demanding a good wage so you don't have to work over guarantee to pay the bills.

Or take $100,000 invest it in your own company and make 20-40% return.
30 years later you will have made a solid business for your kids. Not sure anyone recommends flying to their kids anymore.

I guess I was just trying to enlighten the original poster about wages at a regional vs. working fast food. You're right, the company probably does love guys like me. In my defense, my number one preference bid is to avoid work. I used to get 17 days off and now am down to 12 working 95+ instead of 75 and making the same amount... sucks pretty bad. I wasn't bragging or saying how great life is, just stating the facts about this past year at 9E. I do however pocket 95% of my per diem and bring my own much healthier food. My personal choice of course.
As far as the fast food thing goes. According to Wiki " the minimum wage rate in 2009 was $7.25 per hour or $15,080 for the 2080 hours in a typical work year." I'm not sure if it really compares considering as an airline pilot you start out in that neighborhood, but if you stick with it you will probably retire making over $200,000 which even a McDonald's franchise owner would struggle to make.

LOL, so THAT is the secret to getting 20-40% on my investment portfolio!

:rolleyes:

Didn't mean to get you all butt-hurt. I am just regurgitating what's already been announced by delta. Show me where RA has said otherwise. Some of you guys live in a wonderful world of denial.

That was the genius in the longevity bonus...they gave you money they took away and made us feel like they gave us something.

+1

The saddest part is it worked...

There's no such thing as 6 year pay at 9E anymore. It's capped at 4.

Burger King has a flight department? Do you get whoppers for the crew meals?

Since you've lost track of the point I attempted to make with my initial post let me reiterate it for you.

1.Regional pilots are underpaid.

(I understand that many see a career as a "regional pilot" as a stepping stone to a more lucrative career. And while I personally have the same intentions the fact is that our duties and responsibilities are so poorly compensated for that I can create a tongue in cheek thread about pay comparison of a professional airline pilot to an entry level fast food employee position and have the economics actually favor the fast food employee!)

2. Overtime pay must be evaluated evenly.

So you credit 105hrs/month. A full time airline pilot with our contract credits 75. You are therefore working 40% more than full time. If a burger flipper worked overtime 40% they'd earn $35,880 per year which makes that career path earn roughly $20,000 more than you the first 5 years. Do you not understand that this imbalance is ridiculous?!

3. As you stated, you do not wish to work these extra hours, but you have been forced to. Wouldn't it be nice to be off and home and extra week per month? How can you defend a system which is built upon cheap labor that has no backbone to stand up and say no to predatory management tactics that have you leaving family and friends 20% more than you used to be while making a salary equivalent to a fast food employee? I don't understand if I am not making myself clear, or you are just not reading what I am saying, but for once and for all you are not paid enough for the educational requirements, duties, responsibilities, and time away from home that are being forced upon you. If you realize and agree with that then I cannot understand how you could possible submit an opposing argument to contradict these facts!


4. It is a result of the current state of our entry level positions to our career which is hindering pilot hiring and therefore creating a shortage of qualified applicants.

This is essentially the entire point of my thread. I used my current airline's contract to reinforce my arguments, but the same can be made for nearly any airline at the "regional" level. Although we fly thousands of passengers coast to coast daily, we've been forced to believe that we deserve less and should be happy with the opportunity to fly the flights we have. We have been led by various means to approve contracts that are financially equivalent to those which fast food employees are making attempts to achieve. If that realization does not upset you then I would like to apologize on your behalf to your high school economics teacher who has so cleared fail to give you a basic understanding of your labor's value.

Pretty sure you're trying to squeeze a joke in, but to be honest my 2 minute google search has yielded unreliable results so I cannot honestly state what Burger King utilizes for air travel requirements. (perhaps netjets??) :confused:

However I would personally put my opinion that whoppers are highly unlikely on corporate flights, as they are awful. :p

So go work for Burger King. Have fun :rolleyes:

I don't think there are any regional pilots, especially FO's that would disagree. I try to look at the brighter side of things, make as much as I can at the regional level, and then move on. If you have some great idea to raise wages then I'm all ears but so far I've only heard b****ing and moaning and no solutions. I was sickened at ALPA during our last "lunch" where all they talked about was some Dubai customs BS and other things that have no effect on us. I'd say the first step is to set a floor level of pay in this race to the bottom. If ALPA isn't on board then maybe it's time to form a union that solely represents regional pilots. As far as your economics class comment goes, lighten up!! Remember that Delta has CRJ-900 rates in their contract. Mind you that every pilot at 9E would be making over 6 figures at that rate. So the economics are simple. If there are people willing to work for dirt wages then pay them dirt. And if their union won't put a stop to it then better yet.

"So go work for Burger King. Have fun"

poor guy ..........put so much work into explaining and you did not understand any of it.......

amazing answer....amazing

He might not get it because he seems to have moved onto Delta and has a prosperous career to look forward to. If you were to talk to one of the countless regional pilots who have not gotten onto a legacy despite much effort, they probably would have a different opinion. It's only worth the many years/decades of sacrifice and suffering if you actually get into one of those positions.

I get it. It's just such a stupid argument & comparison when pilots claim "I can make more at Home Depot, McDonalds, BK blah blah blah" It isn't true. If there is more to be made working min wage jobs, then why are they selling themselves short by flying airplanes?

Just because you can make more doing something else doesn't mean that is what you want to do. Sure, they could make more at other jobs but that doesn't mean they want to do those jobs.

Personally, other jobs other than flying were never an option I truly wanted to do. Sure, I have had other jobs to support myself, but they weren't "careers", just jobs.

Sometimes I feel such little hope for humanity when I attempt to clarify my arguments and I'm met with such ignorant statements. Maybe my time would be better spent beating my head against the wall.

I am hoping you're simply trolling. Otherwise may I refer you to the first page of the thread and encourage you to read. Although I must say your avatar picture is a perfect representation of what I believe you are like irl.

Is this a serious question? So they can one day land a job at a major! Same reason as it has been for the past 30 years. Not everyone is as lucky as you to get flowed to Delta.

so easy a caveman can do it.

Lots of pilots are as lucky as me shyguy. By next summer over 100 will have flowed another another 100 hired via the SSP. Too bad you gave up your SSP right so that you could undercut the industry and slave away for Virgin.

It's an SNL Skit. Lighten up Francis.

You've sure made out better than the BK job, so have I, so have many others.

We're talking long term things here, not ADD 5 year stuff.

Just doin' a drive by here but if you are trying to get to a major and don't think this could have consequences for your career development............think again.

Denny

That's his point.

You won't get an interview with a Major flipping burgers.


Attacking his flow to Delta is comical, you would take it in a heartbeat!

"Sorry Sir, I can't accept this flow, I want to go the honorable route and get hired off the street."

I left prior to BK and certainly prior to any concessions/SSP talks. Even if I was still at 9E I still wouldn't be eligible for the SSP. A guaranteed flow (a la Compass) is one thing, but a SSP is nothing guaranteed as some pilots are finding out.

Yes, and it's thinking like that which airline management knows all too well and why they get away with paying poverty wages at regionals. Entry level wages of 15k-30k for FOs and 50-80k for CAs. While a RJ CA salary is livable, FO salary isn't meant to be lived on for long term. Most of the legacy pilots in this thread got hired at a regional in a good time, upgraded very quickly, and got to serve a big portion of the regional career as a CA. Today, thanks to Age 65, recession, and guys who just won't leave unless Delta or United calls, there are 7-10+ year RJ FOs who haven't made a penny more than $35-45k all in hopes of "one day" flying for a major.