Well said.

I have NEVER had any issues jumpseating on Delta (or AA/UAL, etc.). They have all been professional. One A320 captain even went out of his way to give me 'Delta' bag tag to ensure my bag doesn't end up in 'Baggage'. Politeness, Rudeness, Professionalism, lack of it, Attitude, etc., all are individual traits.

Regardless of the attitudes going on right now... Going to Endeavor is a gamble for new highers. Unless Delta seriously addresses the problems with the SSP, there won't be much movement off the top. With a said fleet plan of only 81 900's, that puts Endeavor fat on pilots... a large reserve pool of 200 pilots to staff the operation for a while. Apply at your own risk......

No matter what the issue, why not show some integrity, be a professional and do your jobs? However you feel about EtD should not have even the least amount of influence on whether or not you pass someone on their PC. If you do, you're as bad as any airline management or so-called SJS wunderkinds that you so despise. Grow up already.

It should be noted that the entire training department does not have people that fail other pilots for their own bull$hit reasons.

The 900 program is run by primarily old XJ guys and you will be treated fairly there.

The problem is a handful of old 9E guys on the 200 that don't have a frikin clue.

(mooney BTW is one of the best from either side!)

I don't get what you guys mean when you say fix the SSP. You guys are getting a smoking deal as it is. You don't have to meet DALs mins (4 yr degree), you have a guaranteed interview regardless of your quals being competitive. On top of that when the pool was deep you were getting class dates months ahead of OTS guys you interviewed alongside of. Every other DCI carrier has made sacrifices and none of them including Comair got anything close to your SSP.

Well I think their argument is the no one is actually getting hired through the SSP. It's success rate is significantly lower than OTS interviews.

There is also speculation that DAL is purposely not passing people through the interview due to operational needs at Endeavor.

If Delta had any real intention of taking any of us, you'd be absolutely correct.

Of course the success rate is going to be lower, there's zero screening prior to the interview. SSP guys with huge black marks that would disqualify anybody else still get interviewed. If you picked any other regional pilot group and forced Delta to interview all of them no matter what I'm sure you'd see similar results.

I agree that there would be less success from an SSP but apparently the numbers are so bad it points towards DAL purposely not taking pinnacle applicants.

I don't work there so I don't have the exact success rate of the SSP vs OTS maybe someone can chime in.

I have heard their success rate of getting hired has gone up because more guys actually want the job. They interviewed the most senior guys first who were the most bitter and didn't really care if they got the job because they had 15 years with the company and didn't want to start over. This is what I had heard. Now they are interviewing guys that actually want to go to Delta so the success rate has been going up substantially.

The SSP is not "Free" It was a Carrot on a stick concocted by Dal MGT and Dal MEC in order to sweeten the Pot so it would tip the scales on voting for the bankruptcy contract.

You'll hear stories about TW approaching LM and begging to save our jobs and then LM going to RA and RA looking at our Stellar performance record, has heart and they come up with the SSP and transition bonus. yea right! This was done by design.

Just look at the stipulations that have to remain in place for the SSP to remain in effect. It plays on the fear of loss for the pilots.
IE' we can't get rid of Alpa, because it will null and void the agreement. it effectively predisposes most pilots for loss and resistant to any status change. With that notion in place, it gives Mgt a high probability that they remain in control.

The SSP is not living up to its original intent as signed by this pilot group. Whether that Misinformation was distributed by Delta or the former MEC group, I don't know.

I do know that very specific questions that where asked and answered about the SSP and are indeed not the case today.

The last announcement is the latest Kick in the Nuts for us.

This SSP was a huge sacrifice the pilots at this company, massive pay cuts for the next 8yrs with penny raises during the life of the contract. massive Displacements of Capts to FO, Massive Base displacement.

FO top out at 4 yrs at $36/ hr on the 200 and $38/ hr on the 900

CA $84 on the 200 $87 on the 900

Loss of Vacation, Rate of VAC pay reduced.
Vac days are considered part of days of in bid month.

Loss of per diem, reduction in retirement contribution.

Mgt, Mechanics and Fa's are either in snapback or close to pre- bankruptcy amenities.

I would have much rather have had a 2-3 yr concessionary contract without the SSP.

I voted No for the contract… but that is water under the bridge.

I always love when a mainline guy says basically "you were obviously too stupid or lazy or have skeletons in your check ride closet if you didn't get hired in 07-08." Exactly how many tens of thousands regional, mil, and 91 guys were competing for how many hundreds of mainline jobs?

Again the numbers don't show that. Per the SSP agreement 1/3 or 12 slots per month min, after the flows have been accepted HAVE to be filled with endeavor SSP guys. Just yesterday 6/8 SSPs apparently made it. As the SSP works it way down the list to more hirable guys the numbers are going to go up. No conspiracy here.

Questions for the senior guys turned down early in the process. Did you buy a new suit, shirt, tie, shoes etc? If not, did all those items look new? Did you pay for interview prep? Did you have all of your school transcripts(high school through college, including days missed in high school highlighted (especially if you had very few)) in a folder in chronological order? Did you have all of your extracurricular, volunteer type things in said folder? I know a lot of this seems trivial, but interviewing is a game and they make the rules. Were your logbooks up to date and neat? It takes a lot of preparation to interview well an seperate yourself from the competition. Since HR has taken control over hiring in the last 30 years(vs pilots hiring pilots) these things are important. We as pilots may not agree, but thems the rules. It appears that the later rounds have got the message and are playing the game.

HR personnel are way out of touch. They are hiring based on boxes that need checking. We have had the worst of the worst get hired at mainline. The HR depts are about as competent as the TSA. They make horrible horrible decisions and guess who has to fly with the checked boxes?

yes, yes, yes, yes and yes…. new everything the only time I wore the Suit was fittings. Digital log book was over 600 pgs they commented that it was one of the thickest ones they saw… they asked for a date for a solo and bam! I had it they looked and where surprised I knew it…

I had a sense when AK met with us all in the morn, there was something he didn't like about me. My panel was 70 mins long, everyone else was 30-45 mins.

All of the guys that i have talked with who were hired, stated they were surprised at how easy the questions were, whereas the ones that were not offered a CJO had felt the questions were different in nature and much more ambiguous.

granted they have multiple question sets, many feel (including those CJO candidates) they have certain sets that are used for candidates that are hired.

As an outsider looking in and reading this post, I can certainly see that they would make comment that the difference was preparedness or the history of the applicant. you've got to remember that the HR team has the luxury of looking at our entire employment files which they don't have access too with an outside candidate.

The pilots that interviewed and double "bumped" all stated that they felt the outcome was predetermined before they even showed up.

The HR guy for my interview was not a happy guy, I got along great with the Pilots! they liked my answers, The HR did not! as with his comments after each answer.

I think the answer to the written tests is that they want consistency and accuracy. It doesn't matter if you finish the test or not, its all about the cadence.

Most that were hired felt they had done terrible on the tests and didn't complete them and so on.

I and another was told by AK, We are not considered for employment today nor the future. hmmm ok … WOW!!

Ehh what ever, its water under the bridge now.
It wasn't my day!

However now they want me to help them with their new hires?… that's why the anger with a lot of us.

Never mind. Not worth the effort.

I didn't say that. I never said you were stupid or lazy. You just added that to make me out to be the arrogant mainline snob who had his job handed to him and now looks down on all the poor RJ pukes..sorry, that's not what I said or what I think.

I always love RJ guys who b!tch about how bad they have it and then point the finger at mainline guys instead of doing something about it.

What I said was that Blue Baron was hired prior to 9/11, has 7000 TPIC, 13000 Total, and was very competitive in 07-08 for DL and SWA, who's been hiring in small numbers for a decade. If he hates DL and 9E, he can go somewhere else at any time.

Same for 9E FO's..I read on APC that SKW was offering jobs to candidates in the parking lot who had ATP mins and we're CRJ qualified. None of you have to stay somewhere that you don't want to be..especially now.

I get it. You hate 9E, you hate DL, you hate the SSP, DL's not hiring you so they can keep you in indentured servitude in the RJ. The only thing you have to look forward to is giving $h!t to a EtD new hire cause you paid your dues and he got preferential treatment before ever turning a wheel at 9E.

You got screwed..so screw the SSP.

Sounds like good reasons to go somewhere else.

Never said I hated anything or anyone. I dislike the dl pilots that give me sh*t for "stealing" their job when I had nothing to do with it. Funny how I never get the attitude from AA or UA pilots. Hmmm.

And believe me, my stuff has been out to all that are hiring. Along with thousands and thousands of other regional, corporate, and military folks. Prayerfully, when hiring gets firing on all cylinders my ticket will be punched. Until then, making the best of what I've got.

I promise that the AA and UAL pilots give the same attitude to Eagle and UAL express that you accuse us of.

You are probably right. I've just done years and years of the dci flying so have come in contact with mostly dl guys. And the majority seem like good guys. It's just the few guys that say I caused their furlough. I caused their base to close. I caused their merger, bankruptcy, etc... That puts a burr under my saddle.

DAL to Endeavor pilots:
I know you do the same job DAL pilots do flying DAL owned equipment but you cannot be part of a merger agreement because you are a regional pilot so we cannot afford you the same treatment NWA and Western Airline pilots received. You still need to take a test that they are not required to take because they took a different test at a different company. The difference between regional and mainline is just to vast.

Although Mesaba pilots had a flow agreement with NWA we choose NOT to honor that agreement but only allow a handful to flow. We will however continue to tell the public and customers that we are an honest company with integrity.

We will offer you an SSP to come to DAL if you wish but for those that may not make it through you can still be offered a management position at Endeavor or continue to fly DAL pax on DAL equipment and have the privilege to fly with those less senior that will flow to DAL.

Gee thanks Delta this all sounds great to me, may I have some more kool aid please.

DAL pilots and management have started negotiating another contract. It's high time that Delta pilots take back ALL of their flying under their contract. They made an excellent start in the right direction (based on total aircraft) but there is so much more to be done. Maybe something like, "If it says Delta on the side it has to be flown by a Delta pilot". Sounds reasonable right? They have the power to end the regional BS. Then again, having dirt cheap labor at the regional level increases the major airline's profit margin thereby going straight into a mainline pilot's pocket in the form of profit sharing. Yet we are "represented" by the same union? Bizarre industry to say the least.

It's a nice thought but at this time mainline is not in a position to recover contract flying.. The current fleet orders cover aircraft attrition with the exception of a few .... Ie the 321's

They cannot just upsize, because the competition is waiting to pull the hvc to their side with better scheds.

Sounds like UCAL or AA/UA would be a great fit for you..good luck..seriously.

If you get on with UCAL you might run into my bud who was furloughed from United right after 9/11..he got recalled to the CAL side 6 months ago.

He worked multiple jobs for over 13 years supporting his family waiting for his chance to come back. Like me, he won't say you stole his job, but I bet he says his furlough was extended as you replaced him for "years and years".

He's not as big of a jerk that I am..but I know he shares the "furloughed" attitude.

Seriously..not trying to throw any more punches..but understanding our side of the argument and the "furloughed attitude" can only help you in your future interview when you get the call.

Take it as you like..good luck with UCAL/AA.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a merger to happen, and I definitely wouldn't pass up the SSP that's in front of you.

I just found out it's only a one day interview for 9E SSP's versus 2 days for everybody else...thats sounds like an awesome leg-up to me. Don't sweat the test and Kool-aid always tastes good going down. Haven't we all had enough of crap sandwiches for the last decade?

Good luck sir and I hope to see you at Delta..if you can't stomach the thought of having to take the test, good luck with whatever else comes your way.

Are you really comparing NWA and Western to Endeavor? You can't possibly be that delusional. If you have had your turn at the ssp and failed I understand why. NWA and Western were career airlines. You know and everyone else does too, that the regionals are stepping stones. Always have been. Most get out, some can't and a very few choose not too. Do you really think a new hire at NWA was at the same level professionally as a new hire at XJ or 9E? I can't speak for the Western pilots, but with the exception of the shrink(we had a sim), the NWA pilots were only hired after fairly vigorous testing (both psychological and knowledge based testing) very comparable to Delta's current testing. A regional job is an entry level pt 121 job, and in most cases the first airline job. The only difference is today instead of a 19-34 seat planes that most of us flew, y'all are flying one's with 76 seats.

I'd be willing to make a bet that Delta is the first airline job for most of the Delta pilots too. ;)

Bartok do you still have a mancrush on me? ;)

never mind

Yeah, but how often did you fly JFK to ATL in a 19 seat plane?

I've been to almost every destination Delta goes to in North America, flying that 76 seat jet. There is no difference between the job at 9E, and the job at Delta. Delta has bigger airplanes that pay a lot more, thus they can be more selective because they get a lot of apps. However, don't think for a second that if 9E didn't have that many apps on file, they would not be just as selective.

Moreover, starting the 15th of this month, unless a pilot is a Delta conditional job offer pilot, they can not be a new hire at 9E.

I like big trucks and I can not lie
You other brothers can't deny.......

We don't fly NDB approaches into municipal airports anymore. We fly JFK-ORD, DTW-DFW, SLC-LAX just to name a few. When I was working at Mesaba we got a call from scheduling to pick up passengers that were on a diverted DAL flight because they were not equipped to shoot a Cat II. So we did, in freezing fog down to minimums. I've covered over 4,000 miles and 5 time zones at my "regional". But yes you are correct, this is an entry level job and things are finally moving in the right direction. I graduated cum laude with a 4 year degree, over 6,000 hrs of multi-turbine time flying in and out of the worlds busiest airports in the same weather and on the same routes as every major airline in the US but since I didn't go through DAL's, AA's, or UAL's vigorous testing I don't match up to mainline pilots? And you based this on how many seats?? what is the difference? A B-717 or a E-190? And now Endeavor is going to test a flight instructor or another regional pilot and give him/her the green light for Delta over all the other qualified and experienced pilots already on property. All because they passed a vigorous test? Isn't a 4 year degree, private, commercial, multi-engine, CFI, CFII, MEI, ground instuctor, ATP, 1000 hrs instruction experience, 2000 hrs 121 turbine PIC, 3,000 SIC and a clean 9 year work history with every PC and Line check satisfactory completed enough? At my regional I had to to a sim, panel, and knowledge test, but I didn't get offered a flow to a major. Oh wait I did but they took that back.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong but in the 19 to 34 seat commuter days they were not required to mimic the mainline flying like the regionals are required or expected to do today?

The non glass cockpit recips and turboprops of the 19 to 34 seat planes are so much like the glass cockpit jet I fly now and vastly different from any mainline cockpit. I am truly sorry if I make any comparison between mainline and regional because regional pilots should know their jobs, families and livelihoods should never be as important to us as mainline pilots. In the future I will try to abase myself when in the presence of a mainline pilot and show him the proper respect.

Guys, I'm not questioning your ability as pilots. We all know that you do the same flying as we do, probably harder with the exception of the 88. That being said, you know as well as any of us that flew at the regionals that there are a lot of undesirables. Trust me, that we have a few too. You cannot deny that the hiring criteria at any regional, much less the combo of XJ, 9E and colgan was anywhere close to NWA, Western or now Delta. The regionals pretty much hired anyone who met the mins and couldn't afford to be too choosy. Delta, AA, UAL, SWA, FDX, UPS can. Like it or not they all use a way to screen(weed people out). Some use testing, some use the Astronaut physical(AA back in the day). At this time they can be as choosy as they wish. If nothing bad happens(knock on wood) and the hiring continues for years, most everyone will get their chance. We are early into the hiring and they are going to take whoever they think are the best. Not who you or I think.

To back up what Nerd what nerd said we were told in our interview and throughout training that they knew we could fly airplanes they hired us because they thought we would be good employees. Almost none of my interview questions had to do with how well I flew actually flew the airplane. And another thing I came from the regionals and we knew the game when we signed up and knew were going to have to reinterview for our major slot. Except for those whose flow got pulled we all accepted the terms when we started.

So what's your plan on getting rid of the undesirables at mainline?

The fact is that there are way fewer undesireables, and most are on a lower level of undesireable. Look at the pass rate of the SSP in the senior ranks to help confirm it... Now look at the current rate which is back to normal.

I guess you can make the numbers look anyway you want but the first few very very senior SSP candidates to interview had a very high pass rate. The interview is not about weeding out undesirables, it is about meeting the magic number. The interviewers aren't going to be able to weed out the undesirables that meet the matrix numbers in a one day interview. Plenty of undesirables have made it through, if you think they haven't then you are mistaken (plenty of quality people have also made it through).

don't fall for it guys.... this is a scheme to grown a regional and hire meat in the seat.