Dont apply at endeavor!
 

If everyone is so big on telling people why not to come to Endeavor, here's your chance. Don't turn this into mindless bickering either. Focus on the topic and start the long list of reasons....new hires expect to have the fate of your career in the hands of an instructor who was passed up by Delta. He knows the limit to how many failed checking events you can have. He will make sure he does his part to add to your count. So good luck with it! Oh and Delta can cancel the agreement at any time. Look how well it worked out for Mesaba when everyone there had flow.

seriously? dozens of other legit reasons and you focus on 1 or 2 rogue instructors in a scheme that hasn't even happened yet? You just asked for bikering :) Let's keep the fantasies/emotions out of it and deal with facts. Eternal reserve in JFK, 9 year CA downgrades, this whole thing being a bait & switch, 4 year FO pay scale etc?

I think the better strategy is for all qualified pilots to apply, interview, then unfortunately have to decline the job for personal reasons a few days before class.

You people need to step up to the actual ones that wronged you, not the new guys applying for the job. Deciding to pile up failed checkrides on people who are starting out their career to ruin their lives is cowardly and a despicable way to fight. You want to fight back? Fight back against the people who did this to you. You do this to the new guys? Then you are a bunch of spineless cowards and deserve to be in this predicament.

The only valid reasons are that you are going to have a pilot group who hates new hires, some in positions of authority will seek retribution by failing the applicant. They are not seeking retribution on the new pilot directly, but on Delta and Endeavor. The new pilot is simply a tool or instrument that will be used as a weapon against the companies. IE the company throws a grenade over, the pilot group throws one back over.

This is what the industry has come to. Its sickening but the truth of the matter is new pilots coming to Endeavor will likely be a casualty of war. Come to Endeavor, the pilot group will ensure that extreme measures are taken to dot every i and cross every t or you fail.

As far as listing other reasons why not to come to Endeavor? What's the point. All regional airlines suck equally as bad. Every single company thread on this forum pilots say their airline is the worst and to go elsewhere.

Until the relationship can change between the groups, nothing else can change.

This is another example of how ALPA does not serve the best interests of regional airline pilots directly.

Don't do that...DAL is suspected (to a reliable enough level for me) to hold a grudge and blacklist people who no show a class. Well I guess you could if you're a 100% confirmed lifer at another regional...something fun to do on your day off.

Simply not accepting a job there is enough.

Why?
Is this new hires fault?
Failing somebody based solely on jealousy? This is so unprofessional!

Baron, the instructors aren't advocating this. A handful of non-training dept blowhards are making up hypotheticals, mainly because they hate the training dept for some reason or another. What is unprofessional is implying that instructors who they don't even know personally would do it.

I turned down an interview at Endeavor before the EtD came out, for reasons not listed here. However I am growing increasingly relieved with my decision after discovering the attitude of some in the Endeavor pilot group seem to have. I can understand your being upset, I would be too. However the threats of animosity, failed checkrides etc are just plain childish. Hopefully all of it just venting, but in venting you betray your mindset. You have the avenues to protest this, how about channeling your anger into something productive which has a snowball's chance of working instead of doing a very poor job of representing your pilot group.

Still incredibly unprofessional. You don't create unity by sacrificing your own people as a "tool", you make yourself weaker and that's what management wants. You need to fight management and the system as a whole, but you don't sacrifice your brothers and sisters to make them into a supposed weapon against those who wronged you. I was military before I went to commercial aviation, these comments sicken the Marine in me. It's the tactics of those who are too uneducated and too afraid to stand up for themselves and a horrible way to think.

too bad you didn't come, we need some level headedness. But also remember APC is made up of a disappropriate majority of ****ed of vocal guys compared to the guys that don't post.

This whole thing is smoke and mirrors. Anyone who takes this deal will get to be slave labor in NYC for years and no end in sight. As the company shrinks and CAs who failed the SSP are displaced, upgrade will increase to the point of being non-existent. None of them will flow because none of them will have the requirement of 2 years as a Captain.

This is just a scam to keep Endeavor running just long enough for Delta to stick it to SkyWest and ExpressJet in the next rate reset next year. After that, DAL has no use for Endeavor and they will be Comaired. Sounds like your name might be on a few "lists" too.

Buyer Beware.

Wow! I am convinced not to ever apply at endeavor...........NOT. :rolleyes:

Gentleman, Captain Tony is very likely correct. This isn't his first rodeo. Catboat sailor too.

Some who are observing out that some of the interview "failures" are nonsensical (failures who are LCA and Chief Pilots, PROMOTED AFTER, the failure) need to understand that Endeavor needs qualified Captains, Line Check Airmen and Pilot-Managers. If Delta hires all the qualified folks from Endeavor, who's left to manage, mentor and fly for Endeavor?

With other subsidiaries Delta has been known to stop hiring from the partner to avoid a staffing crisis at the affiliate. Just a consideration.

Very well said!

Marine, you were a part of a unified fighting force which is known for it's loyalty.

The regional airline business was created to be the exact opposite. These alter ego Delta carriers are fought against each other for who gets the next meal. Their existence has more similarities to raising fighting pit bulls than serving together fighting a common enemy with common objectives.

Web board posts have little influence on aspiring pilots who are looking for what to do more than what not to do. These men and women are seeking opportunity.

I don't know if Endeavor is a chance to be at the wrong place at the right time, or the wrong place at the wrong time. But, it is clearly an unknown for pilots who are looking for employment during those critical early years.

Endeavor pilots were pressured into eating a crap sandwich. Their best hope is to get management to relent from what they themselves ratified. To do that they need the new hire pool to be constrained and to drive up the Company's need for their services.

I started XJ in 01.

That's a lot of crap sandwiches!

This EtD program has to be stopped before it can start.

Are you kidding me! There are so many other better regionals out there that are hiring. They know this and the only reason that they are applying is the chance they may flow to d-bag on the backs of the pilots who have sacrificed so much. Give me a break!

I've been in the corporate/charter/regional world most of my aviation career. So many years ago I had hopes and dreams of flying for Delta and to this day I'm still trying to get hired there, but after reading what Delta is trying to do at the regional level disgusts me. I hear so many guys at Delta say it's a great place to work and I believe it is, but what's to stop Delta management once they get the regional sector where they want it to not try and bust the mainline pilot's?

I've even heard some mainline pilots on here say we have taken their flying and now we are getting what we deserve, but most of us were just trying to find employment. When my charter/corporate gig had the writing on the wall of going bust I fortunately was able to get employed instead of the street.

I guess my points this - we are our own worse enemies at times. Did I or other regional pilots cause this problem by getting hired by our carriers rather than choosing the streets? Hands down we would have gone to a mainline, but that hasn't been an option really ever in my lifetime. The worse thing we can all do is blame the other pilot, but instead realize we are all in this together trying to be pilots and make a living to provide for our families or life goals. It would be nice if we ever saw the day that instead of trying to beat each other up we stood firm and all fought back at management when they tried to harm another pilot group.

I agree with you. If these new hires would hold out just a little longer, This ridiculous scheme of Delta would fall short. They would have to restructure there plan and incorporate all pilots into a flow. Win-Win

There will never be a pure flow for all pilots, NEVER. Delta will shut this place down before that ever happens.

Kforekyle,

That's what I'm hopefull for. I'm sure endeavor management is saying "this will fix our staffing". Hopefully they and Delta will both realize that qualified applicants aren't around every corner and will have to pay well and treat them well to attract qualified applicants. Hopefully with all the retirements kicking in pilots will be back in the driver's seat.

Lear

It's better to fight and die than to give up and conform!

ROFL "avenues of protest." Like a 99% strike vote and a labor-friendly NMB? Yeah that worked great for these guys last time.

You obviously haven't been in this industry too long, have you young whippersnapper?

I can't speak for the XJ or 9L groups, but as someone who flew for 9E, I can safely say you can't even comprehend what these guys have been through or what their mindset is right now--you have no idea.

Glad someone said it.

Everyone who works at Delta, regardless of their job or position should take notice of this. They can hang all the "World's Best/Most Admired Employees" signs they want, but what Delta is doing to the regionals right now is where the rubber meets the road. Delta acts like they care about people, as long as it serves their purposes. All Delta really cares about is money and control. They are showing their true colors as the ruthless mega corporation they are.

When all the regionals are gone, Delta will be screwing all of you World's Best just like they are to us now. Mark my words.

:confused:

Where have you been? Ask that question of any pre-2007 hire at Delta.

How is incorporating all pilots into a flow win-win? Are you guys that incompetant at interviewing that your goal is to get a job without interviewing instead of raising the pay where you are currently at? By the time the first EtD pilot flows, every single pilot on your list will have interviewed at Delta. The ones that fail the interview will be able to get interviews at other carriers. I think this new flow program is a joke. It should just be laughed at by all of us. Maybe it works out for a few guys.

Well said CT. delta is ruthless. We at LASA have known this for a very long time. It sickens me every time I listen to the Skywest earnings call and they call delta our "partner". Haa! If I had a business and my business partner treated me like this, I wouldn't be his partner for long. But that seems to be the norm in corporate America these days :cool:

They already did it to mainline pilots..using YOU to replace us. Where have you been for the last decade? Oh yeah, in the LEFT seat of an RJ flying OUR passengers to OUR cities and OUR gates. YOU undercut mainline jobs, YOU happily upgraded while mainline pilots were displaced and furloughed..where was the outrage then?? How about Comair giving the middle finger to DL furloughees who just wanted to swing gear and support their families. Lost pensions, 50% pay cuts, BK and mergers, it's already happened to mainline pilots..and we always had a myriad of RJ pilots ready to REPLACE us at a moments notice.

In return for fNWA pilots to flow BACK to the left seat of an Airlink RJ, DL is honoring the pre-merger fNWA agreement for CZ and SSP flows. How many other airlines would do that? How many fNWA pilots actually displaced into the left seat of an RJ? No mainline Capts were pay protected when they got displaced back to the right seat. Now DL offers EtD, effective only AFTER all the rest of you get a chance to sit in the left seat and get your shot at an SSP interview..and you still spit in DL's face as you whine about having to actually interview for a job at a company you evidently despise. Very well then, do us all a favor and take all that TMEL somewhere else. I'm sure there are lots of DL mainline FO's who would love to replace you in the left seat.

I've been told that it's time to turn the page on my furlough, but this whining from guys who replaced me and all this tough talk is so hypocritical it makes me sick. Next time you fly take a look in back and see how many pax have a ticket on YOUR airline, then take a look at your logbook and fill out your app to anywhere else but here.

Don't you guys have something in your contract that says the company cannot offer a benefit to one group of employees without offering it to to the pilots as well? I seem to recall something like that with teamsters.

With friends like that who needs enemies...

That's nearly a direct quote from my last "Employee Engagement Survey." BTW those signs are embarrassing. We are pretty good, but I prefer quiet competency at work.

CG ... that's a good post.

Sooooooo you are saying there are FOs at DELTA....DELTA AIRLINES that would switch jobs with a captain at ASA?

LOL.

Captain Tony didn't undercut you. Delta did. They wanted the flying for cheap. You guys sold out your scope. Delta got what they wanted. At the end of the day YOU opened pandora's box.

Unfortunately regionals are pretty much the only way to get a job where you work because for some reason we are apparently qualified to fly Delta passengers who bought tickets on delta airlines, on a jet painted in delta colors but we are not qualified to fly a DELTA jet.

How is that a good post? The regionals wouldn't exist in this capacity today if you didn't vote for it. Mainline pilots allowed executives to create this nightmare. I get it though. You voted to relax scope knowing full well what would happen, but you wanted to get what you could when times were tough. Sound familiar?? Pretty much like every regional; fighting to get what they can. Regionals would still be props today if it werent for the vote of the pilots.

Carolina,

Our senior pilots would still vote scope sales if we had not shamed them for having done so. They've enjoyed cross collateralization of their pay and they have no intention of giving a penny back. You have to balance that knowledge with the fact they don't grasp the reality of the post deregulation market and they've had 50% of their earnings and pensions stripped away from them.

And your post is mostly correct, but not exactly correct. There was no small aircraft scope prior to roughly 1995. Several of the first deals were actually scope improvements. ASA was more of a codeshare partner than an express carrier back then. Not unlike Alaska is today.

He doesn't have an SSP interview :rolleyes:

Where does this fighting in the ranks end? Show me one regional pilot group that has the power to control what happens at any mainline. I don't agree necessarily with the avenue or approach that Comair took but how could Comair pilots know ALPA's merger policy will not apply to a regional and mainline? There should never be any pilot on furlough at a mainline or regional while there is a need for pilots at any other carriers. (Or do you just want everything to apply to mainline pilots only? It mostly is anyway with the façade of equality.) I can say at Pinnacle we did take and welcomed NWA furloughees. You might take your argument to ALPA and ask why they don't have better policies for hiring furloughed pilots or read one of BB post regarding that. By the way, DAL DOES NOT honor their agreements! Mesaba had a flow agreement with NWA. Why was it not honored? Yes only a mere handful were allowed to flow. I get that DAL pilots don't like a flow but it was an agreement. You can imagine what would happen if only a handful of NWA were allowed to go to DAL. Where was ALPA or DAL pilots to ensure DAL agreements are kept? So the message was sent to DAL management that they can just choose what agreement they wish to keep and what they can ignore with a regional.

I am truly sorry for what happened to you. You are welcome to continue hating all regionals and their pilots as it plays into managements agenda who will ultimately be the true winners in the long run. If it was up to me I would have all the regional pilots tied to the mainline carrier's pilots with mainline pilots in control and nothing done behind their backs and in full agreement with. I think that would however defeat the purpose of the regionals.