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-   -   The HILARITY of the Endeavor to Delta Program (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/endeavor-air/82002-hilarity-endeavor-delta-program.html)

Mesabah 06-14-2014 08:43 AM


Originally Posted by MrMustache (Post 1664562)
Are you serious? They have it written in there that it's not a guarantee. They can do whatever they please. This is an agreement between only the individual and Delta. Delta has the control with being able to have the discretion of cancelling it as they see fit.

No, they don't.

The regional rate reset is worth serious money, greater than $15 billion over the next decade, they will do anything to keep 9E on life support. The EtD is only the first step in this process, there are several more programs coming to get people here.

tsquare 06-14-2014 08:52 AM


Originally Posted by CarolinaAngler (Post 1660960)
Those hired through the program are guaranteed ajob at Delta. There is just no guarantee on how long it will last.

Interesting. Do continue. Please.

tsquare 06-14-2014 08:58 AM


Originally Posted by Kforekyle (Post 1664386)
What if... they dismantled Endeavor or sold it off

With the 1500 hour rule in force, and our scope in place, what makes you think that would be a wise business decision? IOW, where will DAL get it's pilots from? Look at the attrition numbers alone, and tell me where they are gonna get those kinds of numbers from if they shut down something they now have control of.

todd1200 06-14-2014 09:04 AM


Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 1664558)
You do understand that if Delta shuts down Endeavor, and doesn't honor the EtD, it's fraud, right? The whole point of the EtD, is that people accept to work at slave wages for the promise of a future job at Delta. They can't even get out of these EtD agreements by declaring bankruptcy.

They would be honoring the EtD. If they shut down before anyone hired under EtD meets the requirements, then no one is entitled to a job.

Mesabah 06-14-2014 09:13 AM


Originally Posted by todd1200 (Post 1664576)
They would be honoring the EtD. If they shut down before anyone hired under EtD meets the requirements, then no one is entitled to a job.

If 9E is shut down, would that be the fault of Delta, or the EtD pilot?

The only scenario where Delta can get out of the EtD is if the candidate fails to fulfill their end of the bargain set out in the EtD agreement. This also includes if the EtD candidate goes on strike. If 9E shuts down, that is of no fault or failure of the EtD candidate, thus they go to Delta.

Hillbilly 06-14-2014 09:16 AM


Originally Posted by Avroman (Post 1664353)
Sure.... try selling that to the supposedly guaranteed flow Mesaba pilots.... 980 of about 1060 would disagree with you.

Are you saying only 80 XJ pilots flowed to Delta? Or is this tied to when XJ was purchased, thus triggering a termination of the flow? Instead the parties met and modified the agreement in lieu of termination and only those pilots who qualified for the flow at that time were grandfathered. That was my understanding.

I am only looking for clarification and to gain a better understanding of the issue.

Mesabah 06-14-2014 09:23 AM


Originally Posted by Hillbilly (Post 1664585)
Are you saying only 80 XJ pilots flowed to Delta? Or is this tied to when XJ was purchased, thus triggering a termination of the flow? Instead the parties met and modified the agreement in lieu of termination and only those pilots who qualified for the flow at that time were grandfathered. That was my understanding.

I am only looking for clarification and to gain a better understanding of the issue.

Delta agreed to take exactly one year of flows, 9 x 12 = 108 pilots. Only 80 or so were left, or qualified to flow.

todd1200 06-14-2014 10:17 AM


Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 1664583)
If 9E is shut down, would that be the fault of Delta, or the EtD pilot?

The only scenario where Delta can get out of the EtD is if the candidate fails to fulfill their end of the bargain set out in the EtD agreement. This also includes if the EtD candidate goes on strike. If 9E shuts down, that is of no fault or failure of the EtD candidate, thus they go to Delta.

It says over and over that a pilot hired under the agreement has to meet the eligibility requirements in order to go to Delta. Those requirements include 2 years as a captain at Endeavor. I don't see anything about assigning fault in the event that a pilot doesn't meet the requirements for whatever reason.
--------------------

Pilots offered employment at
Endeavor under the EtD Commitment after June 15, 2014, will, upon becoming and remaining
eligible per the terms described in this document
, be offered employment as Delta pilots.
...
if such a candidate becomes and
remains eligible per the terms described in this document
, then Delta will honor its commitment
and an Endeavor pilot will, upon becoming and remaining eligible, have the choice whether to
accept the offer.
...
The EtD Commitment will serve as the “ticket” to Delta for successful candidates
who meet and maintain eligibility and demonstrate performance at Endeavor.
...
Once offered employment at Endeavor, an applicant will receive the opportunity to be hired at Delta
under the EtD Commitment based on the applicant’s subsequent employment and seniority at
Endeavor and subject to the eligibility requirements set out in the EtD Commitment offer.
...
3. Eligibility Requirements. Notwithstanding an Endeavor pilot’s active status at Endeavor and
receipt of the EtD Commitment when offered employment at Endeavor, each EtD Commitment
pilot must meet the following requirements on the date the pilot is offered a new-hire class at
Delta to be considered eligible and thereafter remain eligible pursuant to the following:
...
a) Qualifications

i. Possess a four (4)-year degree from an accredited university;
ii. Possess, or obtain before the date of hire at Delta, a current yellow fever vaccination;
iii. Have served at least two (2) years in active status as a Captain for Endeavor;
...
Grandfather Rights. Any Endeavor pilot who has been hired at Endeavor under the EtD
Commitment will be deemed to have retained rights to be hired at Delta as specified in his EtD
Commitment Letter and under the terms and provisions stated therein
, regardless of whether
the program has been terminated

Mesabah 06-14-2014 10:53 AM


Originally Posted by todd1200 (Post 1664607)
It says over and over that a pilot hired under the agreement has to meet the eligibility requirements in order to go to Delta. Those requirements include 2 years as a captain at Endeavor. I don't see anything about assigning fault in the event that a pilot doesn't meet the requirements for whatever reason.
--------------------

Pilots offered employment at
Endeavor under the EtD Commitment after June 15, 2014, will, upon becoming and remaining
eligible per the terms described in this document
, be offered employment as Delta pilots.
...
if such a candidate becomes and
remains eligible per the terms described in this document
, then Delta will honor its commitment
and an Endeavor pilot will, upon becoming and remaining eligible, have the choice whether to
accept the offer.
...
The EtD Commitment will serve as the “ticket” to Delta for successful candidates
who meet and maintain eligibility and demonstrate performance at Endeavor.
...
Once offered employment at Endeavor, an applicant will receive the opportunity to be hired at Delta
under the EtD Commitment based on the applicant’s subsequent employment and seniority at
Endeavor and subject to the eligibility requirements set out in the EtD Commitment offer.
...
3. Eligibility Requirements. Notwithstanding an Endeavor pilot’s active status at Endeavor and
receipt of the EtD Commitment when offered employment at Endeavor, each EtD Commitment
pilot must meet the following requirements on the date the pilot is offered a new-hire class at
Delta to be considered eligible and thereafter remain eligible pursuant to the following:
...
a) Qualifications

i. Possess a four (4)-year degree from an accredited university;
ii. Possess, or obtain before the date of hire at Delta, a current yellow fever vaccination;
iii. Have served at least two (2) years in active status as a Captain for Endeavor;
...
Grandfather Rights. Any Endeavor pilot who has been hired at Endeavor under the EtD
Commitment will be deemed to have retained rights to be hired at Delta as specified in his EtD
Commitment Letter and under the terms and provisions stated therein
, regardless of whether
the program has been terminated

What's written in the EtD is only valid while positions at Endeavor exist. If Endeavor shuts down, the only way Delta can comply with the EtD contract, that they signed, is to hire said employees. Otherwise, they are in breach of contract.

This is why, if you don't pass the Delta pilot interview, you can not be an employee at Endeavor going foward.

Chupacabras 06-14-2014 12:05 PM


Originally Posted by todd1200 (Post 1664607)
It says over and over that a pilot hired under the agreement has to meet the eligibility requirements in order to go to Delta. Those requirements include 2 years as a captain at Endeavor. I don't see anything about assigning fault in the event that a pilot doesn't meet the requirements for whatever reason.
--------------------

Pilots offered employment at
Endeavor under the EtD Commitment after June 15, 2014, will, upon becoming and remaining
eligible per the terms described in this document
, be offered employment as Delta pilots.
...
if such a candidate becomes and
remains eligible per the terms described in this document
, then Delta will honor its commitment
and an Endeavor pilot will, upon becoming and remaining eligible, have the choice whether to
accept the offer.
...
The EtD Commitment will serve as the “ticket” to Delta for successful candidates
who meet and maintain eligibility and demonstrate performance at Endeavor.
...
Once offered employment at Endeavor, an applicant will receive the opportunity to be hired at Delta
under the EtD Commitment based on the applicant’s subsequent employment and seniority at
Endeavor and subject to the eligibility requirements set out in the EtD Commitment offer.
...
3. Eligibility Requirements. Notwithstanding an Endeavor pilot’s active status at Endeavor and
receipt of the EtD Commitment when offered employment at Endeavor, each EtD Commitment
pilot must meet the following requirements on the date the pilot is offered a new-hire class at
Delta to be considered eligible and thereafter remain eligible pursuant to the following:
...
a) Qualifications

i. Possess a four (4)-year degree from an accredited university;
ii. Possess, or obtain before the date of hire at Delta, a current yellow fever vaccination;
iii. Have served at least two (2) years in active status as a Captain for Endeavor;
...
Grandfather Rights. Any Endeavor pilot who has been hired at Endeavor under the EtD
Commitment will be deemed to have retained rights to be hired at Delta as specified in his EtD
Commitment Letter and under the terms and provisions stated therein
, regardless of whether
the program has been terminated

You bring up a very, very good point here..... I don't see 9E or a few other regionals around in the next 5 years(the time management is claiming it would take a new-hire to get to Delta). Honestly, I give this place 2-3 years to where it is no long viable. So a new-hire today would sadly not meet the "requirements" and would not be flow eligible. Notice that the protections and grandfather clause only apply when and if Delta chooses to discontinue the EtD. Nowhere does it give exclusions for not meeting the requirement. Its incredible just how worthless this program really is.


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