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Kforekyle 01-21-2022 01:52 PM


Originally Posted by theUpsideDown (Post 3357451)
Again... Theyre just gonna raise prices either way. If they raise prices *points to chart* demand goes down. Sooooo at some point you dont need the lift. Im not saying any of you are wrong, just saying theyres an economic reality at some point that 2x a day with at 150 seats scoops most people up.

3rd man at the table is the economics.

Travelers want flexibility, especially business travelers. There are a lot routes that can’t be reduced or business will be lost. The 900 fills that position quite well.

PilotBases 01-21-2022 02:23 PM


Originally Posted by Kforekyle (Post 3357518)
Travelers want flexibility, especially business travelers. There are a lot routes that can’t be reduced or business will be lost. The 900 fills that position quite well.

It won’t be that drastic, take LGA-ROC, 5x a day on the 900, could cut 2 if the RJ frequencies, put a 221 on one of them, and you still get 4x a day and only 42 lost seats with a 40% reduction in RJ legs on just that pairing. Plenty of freq for business travelers, especially with it likely slower post-COVID environment. It’s not going to be a flip from all RJ to all mainline, but a shift and transition. Remember when LGA/JFK-DFW/IAH was all regional? Stuff like BOS-CVG, LGA-RDU were all RJ until last year.

Theres another what, 45 220s on order, plus a good 50 options, they’re going to fly somewhere…

theUpsideDown 01-21-2022 03:27 PM


Originally Posted by Kforekyle (Post 3357518)
Travelers want flexibility, especially business travelers. There are a lot routes that can’t be reduced or business will be lost. The 900 fills that position quite well.

Theyve been telling me that for a decade, while telling me business travel will naturally go down as technology gets better (all evidence to the contrary). Seems like companies like southwest wouldnt have grabbed so much of the business market share, but they did anyway. Delta's highest claims of the business traveler market have been during covid when they didnt travel. Frequency is a nebulous metric to hang your hat on.

The truth is the prices control the market. The travelers (business people surveyed who spend their bosses/owners money) have certain wants, but ultimately its a numbers question. Watching Boeing go to Delta even though alaskan spent the money and time on direct flights to and from CHS from SEA are a good example of this phenomenon.

The business travel goes down to any destination when you raise prices. Prices control the market, even if the business traveler (using his bosses money). Every road ends at a mainline company for 95% of you. Get that process done as soon as possible. Prices will continue going up a while. Dont be at edv when it happens.

Mesabah 01-21-2022 03:34 PM


Originally Posted by theUpsideDown (Post 3357569)
Theyve been telling me that for a decade, while telling me business travel will naturally go down as technology gets better (all evidence to the contrary). Seems like companies like southwest wouldnt have grabbed so much of the business market share, but they did anyway. Delta's highest claims of the business traveler market have been during covid when they didnt travel. Frequency is a nebulous metric to hang your hat on.

The truth is the prices control the market. The travelers (business people surveyed who spend their bosses/owners money) have certain wants, but ultimately its a numbers question. Watching Boeing go to Delta even though alaskan spent the money and time on direct flights to and from CHS from SEA are a good example of this phenomenon.

The business travel goes down to any destination when you raise prices. Prices control the market, even if the business traveler (using his bosses money). Every road ends at a mainline company for 95% of you. Get that process done as soon as possible. Prices will continue going up a while. Dont be at edv when it happens.

Inflation is also an important factor, average ticket fares have been in the $220 range for several years. That should drift up to $400 or so by the end of next year, and in that market, all flying at mainline makes sense.

Flogger 01-22-2022 07:09 AM


Originally Posted by PilotBases (Post 3357456)
Endeavor and every regional is shrinking. Every legacy is hiring 200/month. Yeah they will have the ability to backfill a good % of RJ flying. Look at the 220 right now and how many of those flights were RJs in 2017.

How much can legacies pay RJs to fly weight restricted CRJ200/E145s before it’s cheaper to do what UpsideDown said?

I have to laugh, for years it was:
-We want flow
-RJ flying should be mainline
-CRJ200 is terrible

Now there’s flow and move to shift flying to mainline and eventually park the deuce and it’s bad.

My take is that all that is not bad. It's all great. I just don't think the RJ's are going away anytime soon. And without scope relief, I'm sure there is a place for the Deuce in Delta's network for many years to come. Odds are Skywest or 9E will fly the last one to the desert.

FlyWhite 01-22-2022 08:50 AM

Delta will take them away if we can't keep them out of the mud. A crew slide off in RDU last night... SMH. When it's icy you should probably taxi slow.. just saying.

Kforekyle 01-22-2022 09:08 AM


Originally Posted by FlyWhite (Post 3357910)
Delta will take them away if we can't keep them out of the mud. A crew slide off in RDU last night... SMH. When it's icy you should probably taxi slow.. just saying.

Slow doesn’t always cut it. If you get onto a big patch of slippery ice, sometimes there is nothing you can do but to hold on and when that happens try to remember to report any areas of concern for the guy behind you. While speed is extremely important, proper ground prep is equally as important. Remember we’re not equipped with all terrain tires. Just saying.

N0RD0 01-22-2022 11:49 AM


Originally Posted by FlyWhite (Post 3357910)
Delta will take them away if we can't keep them out of the mud. A crew slide off in RDU last night... SMH. When it's icy you should probably taxi slow.. just saying.

With criticism like that I hope you were actually there.

Casualinterest 01-22-2022 11:58 AM


Originally Posted by Kforekyle (Post 3357924)
Slow doesn’t always cut it. If you get onto a big patch of slippery ice, sometimes there is nothing you can do but to hold on and when that happens try to remember to report any areas of concern for the guy behind you. While speed is extremely important, proper ground prep is equally as important. Remember we’re not equipped with all terrain tires. Just saying.

Absolutely. Spoken like someone who actually does it. I've slid on patches at 2kts but it was sloped. There's only so much you can do if you hit a solid sheet of ice in a turn

preflight 01-22-2022 06:53 PM


Originally Posted by Casualinterest (Post 3358028)
Absolutely. Spoken like someone who actually does it. I've slid on patches at 2kts but it was sloped. There's only so much you can do if you hit a solid sheet of ice in a turn

I’ve had the aircraft move with idle thrust on ice/snow before, were it not for thrust reversers…


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