View Poll Results: Which one if both offered job ?
Envoy
45
50.56%
Spirit
44
49.44%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll
POLL: Envoy or Spirit ?
10-03-2017, 06:24 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Position: Captain
Posts: 278
POLL: Envoy or Spirit ?
May seem obvious but let me explain
"Final Target" is AA or SWA. I need an airline with a Dallas pilot base due to personal situation. Pay is not the issue, but I need to be in Dallas, and a company with a Dallas pilot base is preferred (agreed that nobody can guess how soon you can get awarded a Dallas base....)
With that said, I have been told I "easily qual" for Envoy (ATP, 6000 TT, 1500 multi Turbine PIC, college degree) and "maybe could go direct to Spirit". I have no 121 time, all Part 91 corporate ops type stuff. So I need to check the 121 box.
With that said, I am applying to ALL of the carriers but if Envoy and Spirit both called, which one should I go to ? Envoy offers a flow (albeit 5+ years) but if I stay alive and breathing I will eventually end up at AA. The Envoy/Eagle training program has always had a great reputation. Off-duty travel on the extensive AA network is appealing. Spirit offers greater pay and no flow...again, final target is AA and SWA.
Money not super critical in this decision. If one is double or triple the other, then yes, that will play a role in my decision.
My initial gut belief is checking the 121 block via Airbus time and with not-poverty wages is the way to go, but maybe I am missing something. Flow could indeed be something to consider.
Thoughts ?
Thank you
* Full disclosure: I will let this poll run for a few weeks then maybe post similar poll over at Spirit forum.
Please comment/reply if you have information beyond simple poll responses. Thank You
"Final Target" is AA or SWA. I need an airline with a Dallas pilot base due to personal situation. Pay is not the issue, but I need to be in Dallas, and a company with a Dallas pilot base is preferred (agreed that nobody can guess how soon you can get awarded a Dallas base....)
With that said, I have been told I "easily qual" for Envoy (ATP, 6000 TT, 1500 multi Turbine PIC, college degree) and "maybe could go direct to Spirit". I have no 121 time, all Part 91 corporate ops type stuff. So I need to check the 121 box.
With that said, I am applying to ALL of the carriers but if Envoy and Spirit both called, which one should I go to ? Envoy offers a flow (albeit 5+ years) but if I stay alive and breathing I will eventually end up at AA. The Envoy/Eagle training program has always had a great reputation. Off-duty travel on the extensive AA network is appealing. Spirit offers greater pay and no flow...again, final target is AA and SWA.
Money not super critical in this decision. If one is double or triple the other, then yes, that will play a role in my decision.
My initial gut belief is checking the 121 block via Airbus time and with not-poverty wages is the way to go, but maybe I am missing something. Flow could indeed be something to consider.
Thoughts ?
Thank you
* Full disclosure: I will let this poll run for a few weeks then maybe post similar poll over at Spirit forum.
Please comment/reply if you have information beyond simple poll responses. Thank You
Last edited by BarrySeal; 10-03-2017 at 06:39 PM.
10-03-2017, 07:14 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 259
Originally Posted by BarrySeal
May seem obvious but let me explain
"Final Target" is AA or SWA. I need an airline with a Dallas pilot base due to personal situation. Pay is not the issue, but I need to be in Dallas, and a company with a Dallas pilot base is preferred (agreed that nobody can guess how soon you can get awarded a Dallas base....)
With that said, I have been told I "easily qual" for Envoy (ATP, 6000 TT, 1500 multi Turbine PIC, college degree) and "maybe could go direct to Spirit". I have no 121 time, all Part 91 corporate ops type stuff. So I need to check the 121 box.
With that said, I am applying to ALL of the carriers but if Envoy and Spirit both called, which one should I go to ? Envoy offers a flow (albeit 5+ years) but if I stay alive and breathing I will eventually end up at AA. The Envoy/Eagle training program has always had a great reputation. Off-duty travel on the extensive AA network is appealing. Spirit offers greater pay and no flow...again, final target is AA and SWA.
Money not super critical in this decision. If one is double or triple the other, then yes, that will play a role in my decision.
My initial gut belief is checking the 121 block via Airbus time and with not-poverty wages is the way to go, but maybe I am missing something. Flow could indeed be something to consider.
Thoughts ?
Thank you
* Full disclosure: I will let this poll run for a few weeks then maybe post similar poll over at Spirit forum.
Please comment/reply if you have information beyond simple poll responses. Thank You
"Final Target" is AA or SWA. I need an airline with a Dallas pilot base due to personal situation. Pay is not the issue, but I need to be in Dallas, and a company with a Dallas pilot base is preferred (agreed that nobody can guess how soon you can get awarded a Dallas base....)
With that said, I have been told I "easily qual" for Envoy (ATP, 6000 TT, 1500 multi Turbine PIC, college degree) and "maybe could go direct to Spirit". I have no 121 time, all Part 91 corporate ops type stuff. So I need to check the 121 box.
With that said, I am applying to ALL of the carriers but if Envoy and Spirit both called, which one should I go to ? Envoy offers a flow (albeit 5+ years) but if I stay alive and breathing I will eventually end up at AA. The Envoy/Eagle training program has always had a great reputation. Off-duty travel on the extensive AA network is appealing. Spirit offers greater pay and no flow...again, final target is AA and SWA.
Money not super critical in this decision. If one is double or triple the other, then yes, that will play a role in my decision.
My initial gut belief is checking the 121 block via Airbus time and with not-poverty wages is the way to go, but maybe I am missing something. Flow could indeed be something to consider.
Thoughts ?
Thank you
* Full disclosure: I will let this poll run for a few weeks then maybe post similar poll over at Spirit forum.
Please comment/reply if you have information beyond simple poll responses. Thank You
10-03-2017, 08:04 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Gear slinger
Posts: 2,897
Originally Posted by BarrySeal
May seem obvious but let me explain
"Final Target" is AA or SWA. I need an airline with a Dallas pilot base due to personal situation. Pay is not the issue, but I need to be in Dallas, and a company with a Dallas pilot base is preferred (agreed that nobody can guess how soon you can get awarded a Dallas base....)
With that said, I have been told I "easily qual" for Envoy (ATP, 6000 TT, 1500 multi Turbine PIC, college degree) and "maybe could go direct to Spirit". I have no 121 time, all Part 91 corporate ops type stuff. So I need to check the 121 box.
With that said, I am applying to ALL of the carriers but if Envoy and Spirit both called, which one should I go to ? Envoy offers a flow (albeit 5+ years) but if I stay alive and breathing I will eventually end up at AA. The Envoy/Eagle training program has always had a great reputation. Off-duty travel on the extensive AA network is appealing. Spirit offers greater pay and no flow...again, final target is AA and SWA.
Money not super critical in this decision. If one is double or triple the other, then yes, that will play a role in my decision.
My initial gut belief is checking the 121 block via Airbus time and with not-poverty wages is the way to go, but maybe I am missing something. Flow could indeed be something to consider.
Thoughts ?
Thank you
* Full disclosure: I will let this poll run for a few weeks then maybe post similar poll over at Spirit forum.
Please comment/reply if you have information beyond simple poll responses. Thank You
"Final Target" is AA or SWA. I need an airline with a Dallas pilot base due to personal situation. Pay is not the issue, but I need to be in Dallas, and a company with a Dallas pilot base is preferred (agreed that nobody can guess how soon you can get awarded a Dallas base....)
With that said, I have been told I "easily qual" for Envoy (ATP, 6000 TT, 1500 multi Turbine PIC, college degree) and "maybe could go direct to Spirit". I have no 121 time, all Part 91 corporate ops type stuff. So I need to check the 121 box.
With that said, I am applying to ALL of the carriers but if Envoy and Spirit both called, which one should I go to ? Envoy offers a flow (albeit 5+ years) but if I stay alive and breathing I will eventually end up at AA. The Envoy/Eagle training program has always had a great reputation. Off-duty travel on the extensive AA network is appealing. Spirit offers greater pay and no flow...again, final target is AA and SWA.
Money not super critical in this decision. If one is double or triple the other, then yes, that will play a role in my decision.
My initial gut belief is checking the 121 block via Airbus time and with not-poverty wages is the way to go, but maybe I am missing something. Flow could indeed be something to consider.
Thoughts ?
Thank you
* Full disclosure: I will let this poll run for a few weeks then maybe post similar poll over at Spirit forum.
Please comment/reply if you have information beyond simple poll responses. Thank You
AA/SWA>Spirit>Envoy.
Stop procrastinating and put your apps out and go with who calls you and keep working until you’re where you want to be but I’d rather be at Spirit than Envoy waiting for a legacy or SWA to call.
10-03-2017, 08:09 PM
#4
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 388
Originally Posted by Otterbox
If you’re the dude who posted this Poll on Facebook a few months ago you could be through training and on your way to a Dallas base at Envoy right now waiting for Spirit or SWA to call.
AA/SWA>Spirit>Envoy.
Stop procrastinating and put your apps out and go with who calls you and keep working until you’re where you want to be but I’d rather be at Spirit than Envoy waiting for a legacy or SWA to call.
AA/SWA>Spirit>Envoy.
Stop procrastinating and put your apps out and go with who calls you and keep working until you’re where you want to be but I’d rather be at Spirit than Envoy waiting for a legacy or SWA to call.
10-03-2017, 08:20 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Gear slinger
Posts: 2,897
Originally Posted by HardLemonade
Still hoping Piedmont will get some E175s?? Or have you applied to Spirit yet?
The next 8 years at Sprirt are worth more $ wise than the next 8 years at any WO.
If PDT gets the 175, bad things (mainline scope relief or a contract carrier shut down)have happened elsewhere. I’m good with the 145 thanks.
10-04-2017, 04:07 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Position: E175
Posts: 686
Originally Posted by BarrySeal
May seem obvious but let me explain
"Final Target" is AA or SWA. I need an airline with a Dallas pilot base due to personal situation. Pay is not the issue, but I need to be in Dallas, and a company with a Dallas pilot base is preferred (agreed that nobody can guess how soon you can get awarded a Dallas base....)
With that said, I have been told I "easily qual" for Envoy (ATP, 6000 TT, 1500 multi Turbine PIC, college degree) and "maybe could go direct to Spirit". I have no 121 time, all Part 91 corporate ops type stuff. So I need to check the 121 box.
With that said, I am applying to ALL of the carriers but if Envoy and Spirit both called, which one should I go to ? Envoy offers a flow (albeit 5+ years) but if I stay alive and breathing I will eventually end up at AA. The Envoy/Eagle training program has always had a great reputation. Off-duty travel on the extensive AA network is appealing. Spirit offers greater pay and no flow...again, final target is AA and SWA.
Money not super critical in this decision. If one is double or triple the other, then yes, that will play a role in my decision.
My initial gut belief is checking the 121 block via Airbus time and with not-poverty wages is the way to go, but maybe I am missing something. Flow could indeed be something to consider.
Thoughts ?
Thank you
* Full disclosure: I will let this poll run for a few weeks then maybe post similar poll over at Spirit forum.
Please comment/reply if you have information beyond simple poll responses. Thank You
"Final Target" is AA or SWA. I need an airline with a Dallas pilot base due to personal situation. Pay is not the issue, but I need to be in Dallas, and a company with a Dallas pilot base is preferred (agreed that nobody can guess how soon you can get awarded a Dallas base....)
With that said, I have been told I "easily qual" for Envoy (ATP, 6000 TT, 1500 multi Turbine PIC, college degree) and "maybe could go direct to Spirit". I have no 121 time, all Part 91 corporate ops type stuff. So I need to check the 121 box.
With that said, I am applying to ALL of the carriers but if Envoy and Spirit both called, which one should I go to ? Envoy offers a flow (albeit 5+ years) but if I stay alive and breathing I will eventually end up at AA. The Envoy/Eagle training program has always had a great reputation. Off-duty travel on the extensive AA network is appealing. Spirit offers greater pay and no flow...again, final target is AA and SWA.
Money not super critical in this decision. If one is double or triple the other, then yes, that will play a role in my decision.
My initial gut belief is checking the 121 block via Airbus time and with not-poverty wages is the way to go, but maybe I am missing something. Flow could indeed be something to consider.
Thoughts ?
Thank you
* Full disclosure: I will let this poll run for a few weeks then maybe post similar poll over at Spirit forum.
Please comment/reply if you have information beyond simple poll responses. Thank You
Besides, if you are following this business, spirit pilots are about to strike. Their pay sucks.
10-04-2017, 07:18 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 238
I left Eagle/Envoy in Jan 2014 after being there for almost 7 years at the time.
Having experienced both, I would likely go with Spirit. As you may know Spirit is in negotiations for a new contract. The current contract expired in August of 2015. Much of the hard negotiating is behind and Spirit and the union have been in mediation for over a year now. The company recently put out an offer that the union declined. A new contract will be signed, it's a matter of time.
That said, there are problems here, but even at current contract rates and even being in the right seat for 5 years, you will far surpass your Envoy earnings during an 8 year period when comparing the two even taking the Envoy retention bonuses into consideration.
If I read what's on these threads correctly, from date of hire at Envoy will be about 8 years till flow. If you are diligent in your job search, you should be able to land a legacy job in that time period. If not, the new Spirit contract rates will be near legacy rates so you haven't lost much unless you just value the prestige of working for a legacy.
With the above in consideration, QOL at Spirit also far surpasses Envoy. You will not suffer from lack of off time, you will not be force junior manned, no reserve turnbacks, 4 days off between blocks of reserve or sequences. All of these things combined make life quite tolerable.
There are great crews at Envoy. Many experienced professionals there so if you decide to go that route, you will have good company. Best of luck.
Having experienced both, I would likely go with Spirit. As you may know Spirit is in negotiations for a new contract. The current contract expired in August of 2015. Much of the hard negotiating is behind and Spirit and the union have been in mediation for over a year now. The company recently put out an offer that the union declined. A new contract will be signed, it's a matter of time.
That said, there are problems here, but even at current contract rates and even being in the right seat for 5 years, you will far surpass your Envoy earnings during an 8 year period when comparing the two even taking the Envoy retention bonuses into consideration.
If I read what's on these threads correctly, from date of hire at Envoy will be about 8 years till flow. If you are diligent in your job search, you should be able to land a legacy job in that time period. If not, the new Spirit contract rates will be near legacy rates so you haven't lost much unless you just value the prestige of working for a legacy.
With the above in consideration, QOL at Spirit also far surpasses Envoy. You will not suffer from lack of off time, you will not be force junior manned, no reserve turnbacks, 4 days off between blocks of reserve or sequences. All of these things combined make life quite tolerable.
There are great crews at Envoy. Many experienced professionals there so if you decide to go that route, you will have good company. Best of luck.
10-04-2017, 01:23 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 419
Originally Posted by BarrySeal
Anybody know if Spirit has ID90 type benefits for family and/or dependents ?
The Envoy (AA) travel benefits seem pretty extensive....
The Envoy (AA) travel benefits seem pretty extensive....
10-07-2017, 07:58 AM
#10
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 15
Spirit is a dumpster fire right now. Low morale, new contract is years away at best. Upgrade is non existent for new hires unless another significant aircraft order is made. Training department failure rate nearing 10%. Seriously don't waste your time.
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