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-   -   Flow being violated again... (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/111065-flow-being-violated-again.html)

AZPilotMike 02-02-2018 02:12 AM


Originally Posted by daveetasac (Post 2517632)
This would mean that no fewer than 50% would reign supreme. If 60 are hired at AA in a month, 30 protected pilots should flow. Operational necessity should not apply at this point, as the company continues to grow the pilot group/flying.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.

This is what I was assuming the OP was referring to.

Daytripper13 02-02-2018 05:28 AM


Originally Posted by daveetasac (Post 2517632)
This would mean that no fewer than 50% would reign supreme. If 60 are hired at AA in a month, 30 protected pilots should flow. Operational necessity should not apply at this point, as the company continues to grow the pilot group/flying.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.

I found the full letter:

When AA is hiring, Eagle shall release a minimum of 25 eagle pilots per month, provided that, if American becomes obligated to offer sufficient pilot positions to fill a minimum of 50% of each new hire class, then Eagle shall use its best efforts to release a sufficient number of pilots per month to fill such classes, but in no event less then 25.

It’s the words best effort that is worrisome. After losing the reserve turn back to arbitration and many others, I don’t have much confidence. Hope you’re right though...

ORDinary 02-02-2018 05:44 AM


Originally Posted by Daytripper13 (Post 2517752)
I found the full letter:

When AA is hiring, Eagle shall release a minimum of 25 eagle pilots per month, provided that, if American becomes obligated to offer sufficient pilot positions to fill a minimum of 50% of each new hire class, then Eagle shall use its best efforts to release a sufficient number of pilots per month to fill such classes, but in no event less then 25.

It痴 the words best effort that is worrisome. After losing the reserve turn back to arbitration and many others, I don稚 have much confidence. Hope your right though...

I agree that "best efforts" is weak language, but it helps when an upper management member comes out in public and admits their plan to always meter no matter what.

daveetasac 02-02-2018 08:23 AM

I agree with all...that language is as holey as a piece of Swiss cheese.

Aviatrx 02-02-2018 11:11 AM


Originally Posted by ORDinary (Post 2517771)
I agree that "best efforts" is weak language, but it helps when an upper management member comes out in public and admits their plan to always meter no matter what.

THIS. RW is actually on record saying exactly this without even mention that he intends to make a best effort to flow 50%. I am pretty sure we can win this one. What we win though, will more than likely be underwhelming

mketch11 02-02-2018 11:28 AM

How about 50% get seniority numbers regardless of less flow?
I’m just spitballing here.

bigtime209 02-02-2018 12:54 PM


Originally Posted by mketch11 (Post 2518030)
How about 50% get seniority numbers regardless of less flow?
I知 just spitballing here.

Not going to happen. APA will not allow seniority numbers to go to anyone not on AA property.

mketch11 02-02-2018 01:06 PM


Originally Posted by bigtime209 (Post 2518091)
Not going to happen. APA will not allow seniority numbers to go to anyone not on AA property.

Ya I guess I知 too optimistic, I知 honestly leaning towards they will meter the flow and we will lose these grievances claiming contract violation. On a side note, how hard is it to volunteer for union stuff such as contact negotiation if you commute?

havick206 02-02-2018 01:24 PM


Originally Posted by mketch11 (Post 2518098)
Ya I guess I知 too optimistic, I知 honestly leaning towards they will meter the flow and we will lose these grievances claiming contract violation. On a side note, how hard is it to volunteer for union stuff such as contact negotiation if you commute?

Commuting doesn稚 make a difference for volunteering for those positions, good luck and I知 sure the committee would appreciate the help.

bigtime209 02-02-2018 02:04 PM


Originally Posted by mketch11 (Post 2518098)
Ya I guess I知 too optimistic, I知 honestly leaning towards they will meter the flow and we will lose these grievances claiming contract violation. On a side note, how hard is it to volunteer for union stuff such as contact negotiation if you commute?

I'd say you're leaning towards a very safe bet.


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