For you High Value Aviators....
 

Now take this with a grain of salt, I currently work for this company.

I enjoy working here for the near 2 years on property. With every regional there's pro's and con's but this new recruitment tactic has me thinking...

Being based where I am, senior and enjoying a great QOL at the moment. But the forced upgrade will be rearing it's ugly head soon.

I was discussing the fact of all you HVA's that are currently getting on with envoy attracted to quick upgrade times towards being a Captain and also to some of you whom have prior 121 time and can hold captain right away. Let me say, I welcome you with open arms regardless of reasoning or decision.

But the thing is I wonder to myself is once you come on property, don't you think your stay here won't be as dreamy as you thought it may be? Not to mention you're not helping the cause of getting better pay rates because classes are still getting filled and you see these bonus'snice 45k bonus's (Which are already taxed heavily)

Because the way I see it.You get on property, you become captain, then you sit reserve. Not even thinking all this time about the 2015(Maybe even earlier) through early 2017 new hires that may be upgrading soon as well, possibly displacing you out of your base as well as jumping over you in regards to seniority and you're inevitably going to just get pushed lower and lower down the totem pole in regards to the reserve list....

I understand why you come here, but sitting your whole career here on reserve has got to suck. At least that's what I forsee happening.Not to mention a near decade flow!

Yes there's going to be movement, but with an already metered flow, and the way they abuse reserves already, were you really thinking? Or did you see quick upgrade and that bonus you decided to send it?

I feel like you've been "Envoyed" as we say here, but maybe it's just me.

You guys see whats in front of you, but forget to see the picture far ahead of you.

Wish you the best of luck regardless, but something to think about for the ones thinking about coming on and the ones currently here.

Feel free to discuss without acting like elementry school children in the school yard.

Lol...wow. You've been here 2 whole years. Hot damn...you've got it all figured out. Lay it on us brotha. Tell us the ways of the force...

Never did I say how I have it figured out.

I gave my thoughts and opinions based on what I've seen and heard during my time here.

Feel free to add something insightful and maybe I might learn something from you, I'm not saying you have to agree with what I personally think, but right now you sound bitter, and hell you may have every right to be.

But lighten up man. I said discuss, not be a d*ck. I mean unless you don't think we could be compensated more, and have better reserve rules...

Bonus isn't taxed heavily. It is withheld at a higher rate, but you get it back when you file.

The HVA tactic is bogus and if you have enough 121 time to qualify for it then it can be assumed that you know enough about the industry, and you’re able to come to terms with the fact that you’re going to be on reserve for a long time. Life isn’t so different for the poor CRJ CAs with next to no movement. But I say bring them in. This will only last so long before the pool of people willing to subject themselves to what’s involved runs out. That just means a higher stack of bodies beneath me and you when we upgrade. That’s why every little thing you can do to keep that forced upgrade in the future makes a difference for you.

To the best of my knowledge, of the 11 prior 121 guys and girls in the 29 Jan class there were no HVA bonus people (but I didn't go polling them either), and of that number 3 were upgradeable on the next bid.

Because I got back nearly 10k when I filed last year right?

Please tell me more on how it isn't taxed heavily. Or should I just fire my accountant?

Im on the same boat bro. Networking is the key!;)

Your reading comprehension skills are as bad as your Google skills.

If your bonus was 10,000, your withholding would have been 25% of that, which is $2500.

When you file, if your tax rate is lower than 25%, you will get the difference back.

https://blog.turbotax.intuit.com/inc...-the-irs-8003/

https://www.patriotsoftware.com/payr...age-aggregate/

You would have only gotten back a couple of hundred bucks.

Ooo look at you bragging about being “senior” with a whole 2 years of experience. Trying being a FO on reserve for 4 years. Also not getting paid any bonuses like you do now. Believe me there’s much worse things then sitting reserve as a CA for a year or two before a major picks you up.

Different times bro. I consider senior myself.

And look at you, being bitter.. I try to remain humble as possible always. I made a post in regards to the HVA so people can discuss.

As to where I am in regards to seniority, yes I'm a "senior" lineholder.Nothing more nothing less. I said this to give my CURRENT experience here on property, knowing this too will change. I didn't come on here saying that I'm the King over here bc of it. There's plenty for me to learn yet, and learn everyday.

If you want me to brag, I could brag but out of respect for others before me,and being of poor taste, I of course would refrain from doing so, as I have them to thank as well. I don't come here to gloat.

Furthermore, you know whats worse being a reserve FO for 4 years? Homeless. Couch surfing for months at a time and working my ass off until that time until I could afford an apartment. I lived that. And never once did I look at others and moan about it.

And guess what, some people still had it worse than me, but I was able to get out the sh*thole I was in and made the best out of everything.As you should too.

By no means am I bragging. Get a grip, life could be much worse.

At least you get it. The times change, movement happened, bases opened.

Hence people becoming technically "senior" relatively quickly.

He sounds bitter alright. I think he regrets leaving envoy for a corporate 24-7 job.

Exactly what I'm thinking man. You hit the nail on the head and I hear your exact sentiments more and more when I'm at work.

1. Forced upgrades will not continue if pilots start to bid defensively and force the company's hand. (Bid back to FO prior to fed ride and get displaced to a different equipment. And repeat.)
2. HVA will not continually get "pushed" down. They will continue to get pushed up by the new guys coming in below them. Sooner or later the HVA program will go away and FOs will start volunteering to upgrade.
3. Finally, I'm more interested in the short term craziness the company is going to do in the short term to fix the CA issue. There is coming a time in the near term where CAs are going to be JMed and abused.

Why not upgrade? Im tired of flying with DB's myself.

Company needs 400 HVAs in the next two years per RW

I was always curious as to why more people dont refuse a JM. It doesn’t count as an MA.

Not going to happen unless they get 9E rates.

Don't want to file a fatigue report? We've been told that if you refuse JM you have to file one. NH here, so don't know square from blue yet

That's your problem, whether you upgrade or not, there will always be a DB in the cockpit. You can't run from yourself.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! That’s funny. There must be a problem with Sabre because that’s what exactly happened to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yea, I had a laugh when I read that too 😂

That’s not exactly true, you’ll get a MA unless this situation applies:

The placeholder code “UA” will be used instead of “MA” under the following circumstances:
a. The use of the “UA” code shall be limited to cases where the Company is contacting pilots in reverse order of seniority on a day off, to fill open time in accordance with Section 11.I.1.e-f.
b. When a pilot is positively notified of a junior man assignment by the Company per Section 11.I.1.e-f. and the pilot is unable to accept this assignment due to personal reasons, the Company will use the absence code “UA” in his planned absence record (HI10 or *4) as a placeholder.
c. Only the Domicile Chief Pilot, in consult with the pilot, will be permitted to remove or replace the “UA” code.

So basically only if they call you at home on your day off.

For you High Value Aviators....
 

Exactly, I DID NOT GET BACK “MOST OF MY BONUS BACK IN TAXES.”
My bonus was taxed heavily, maybe because of higher income, and higher tax rate. I did not see it most of my returns in my tax return last year. Plus we exceeded standard deductions, gave a ton to charity, and wrote off property tax & interest.

Some of my class mates I have been in communication with said they did NOT get most of it back either when asked last year.

No one said you will get back most of the withholding. I said you will get back the difference between your withholding rate, 25%, and your tax rate, whatever that is.

I don’t know who you are quoting as nobody in this thread said you’d get “most” of it back.

Guys this isn’t hard.
25% is withheld initially. Only when you file will you then know your income tax rate for that year. That bonus will be taxed accordingly.
If your effective tax rate is <25% = appropriate refund.
>25% = you have to write a check (depending)

What the hell is a HVA?

For you High Value Aviators....
 

I know you just copied from the contract but line b. has a typo. It should say.....

b. When a pilot is positively notified of a junior man assignment and is unable to accept due to personal reasons, the company will reprimand such pilot regardless of number of denials during employment. A “MA” will be issued after your CP will not actively listen and care nothing about your reasons of denial and be appropriately documented in pilots company record. Make it quick, the flight is waiting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

For all the new guys who haven’t figured it out. If it’s black and white in the contract, the company selectively follows what’s in THEIR BEST INTEREST. Do not rely on people’s stories of “well that didn’t happen to me, they were very accommodating”. After 11 years, I as well as even more junior and senior have learned that this isn’t always the case. Tread lightly, and carry gel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I think a lot of guys here have only done a few 1040EZs so far and aren't used to thinking in terms of withholding vs actual taxation yet.

HVA = High Value Aviator. If you are currently empoyed at Envoy, you are NOT one according to the company: https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/e...r-program.html

Not all Envoy bonuses are taxed 25%. I have only had ONE bonus where it was taxed exactly 25%. Regardless of the initial tax it is treated as wages.

HVA are special pilots that get paid 45k signing bonus. High Value Aviator. Aka Riddle pilots.

You are confusing a JM with an extension. If you refuse a flight duty period extension then you have to call in fatigue.

Oh word? So explain this again?

You are just embarrassing yourself.

Why don’t you do yourself a favor a google tax withholding vs tax rates.

I just did the math and it was in my error on how the taxes structure done.

Further more it came in 2 installments instead of 1 which I originally thought. So I stand corrected. It happens.

I still asked a few of my classmates if they got it back and they didn't. So idk. Luck of the draw? Who knows. But I know I didn't get much back either.

Why am I still laughing about this?!

There are so many variables as to why one person “got everything back” and someone else didn’t. Married or not. Does your spouse work? How many exemptions are you claiming throughout the year? Did you have a better paying job in the year before you started? How many kids do have? Can you itemize or not?

You have to compare apples to apples, not pomegranates.

Here is my response for you and any one else startled at other pilots willing to take the 45k insta cap. and perma reserve in LGA.

At my current company I am a line holder FO with an ok QOL. Current 10+ year captains here still commuting to reserve with little movement off the top. I will see upgrade years from now most likely 2-3 years and would then be commuting to reserve for the foreseeable future , if things don’t improve. No progression to a major, a descent contract, but contracts don’t pay my bills.

Envoy flashes 45k and upgrades at me. I don’t loose much, my QOL would be the same here when I upgrade in 2 years. Sure I’m going to have to commute to reserve at Envoy and be in the lovely NYC or ORD for a while, still would be paying for the same situation here.

If I get a “real” flow to fall back on, 45k and double my current hr rate to go sit reserve for a year. It’s very tempting and I am still contemplating it.

First post on APC, not suss at all.

To compare apples with apples, which airline do you currently fly for so you can compare contracts.