"Obviously" they can "ONLY" talk to "one" at "a" time.

And now you’re going to have brand new, junior captains who don’t have the experience nor the confidence to speak up about it.

Exactly. They've tried this push before, but there was a lot of push back. I bet now that there are tons of new Captains with very few years in service they see this as their chance to set a "new normal" fueling baseline. There won't be near as much push back as a few years ago.

I’m pretty sure THAT is a legit e-mail. If so, he is brave to send it. That being said, on the 145, I have had very little to no pushback requesting gas for various reasons. I have personally had Captains coach me that if your arrival gas is less than __, than you need to request add fuel, which is just ignorant. As a Captain, you should be able to read a little deeper into the situation before asking for gas “Just because”. If you are short on you flight plan you need to be proactive, and let the dispatch and SOC know something is not adding up. Unfortunately making the determination on gas, requires some experience which many folks at Envoy are lacking. Regardless, let’s teach these Captains and not threaten them. If they can’t be taught, then maybe they should be dealt with.

Captains.... Declare min fuel. When looking at the fuel projection on the FMS and it’s giving you the willies, declare min fuel! Leave a paper trail, with mounds of evidence will give us and dispatchers more ammunition fighting corporate policies. Don’t wait until it’s too late and you have an emergency or divert. The pipeline is simple to do, very little details needed.

I do not condone the company’s actions though. This is wrong on so many levels. Anyone heard of PSA or PDT having this issue?


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Extra fuel is insurance against unforeseen circumstances. Nobody likes to pay for it, but you have to have it. It’s the cost of doing business and a hedge against a potentially MUCH larger expense. A return to gate, a divert or something potentially disastrous. We hope to never use our insurance. Should we be penalized for not filing a claim every time we fly as well?

There are far too many moving pieces to plan and control everything. All it takes is several minutes of “turn left 60 degrees for spacing” to burn through any cushion of fuel.

Let’s put a number to this... those that enjoy high power math. How much extra fuel is burned TO CARRY 500 lbs of fuel on 750 mi trip? I know this number will vary but let’s get a rough order of magnitude.

Knowone seems to concerned at DFW while we sit burning a **** load of fuel while the ramp personnel finish their conversations and take the long way out to guide our ac in.

Probably about the same as 3 non-rev passengers... except I can't use 3 non-revs to get to the alternate.

Check your company e- mail for RW’s apology letter!

Ha! That makes me feel sooo much better! (Sarc)

I hope that manager is reprimanded out of a job.