Picking Up Flying On Reserve
05-21-2018, 05:15 AM
#21
On Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2017
Posts: 24
FM1 says you are still "on duty" for that 15 minutes, as a reserve pilot on duty and not mid sequence you are subject to reassignment.
That note just says that the 15 minutes cannot be removed from your duty day for the purposes of determining rest. You are still "on duty" either way, it just protects you from having CS squeeze in an extra 15 mins to your duty day by getting rid of the 15 min debrief.
The contract allows you to self release with HI3 & HI6 immediately after block in. The 15 minute post flight debrief is still considered for the purposes of determining rest.
By all means, if you think this is all silly crew room business then don't check your HI3&6 and don't pick up your phone when CS calls 10 mins after block in and leaves you a voicemail with a valid flight assignment. Let us know how the grievance goes.
There's no reason I would know any better than the next guy - but to me this "myth" is spelled out pretty clearly.
That note just says that the 15 minutes cannot be removed from your duty day for the purposes of determining rest. You are still "on duty" either way, it just protects you from having CS squeeze in an extra 15 mins to your duty day by getting rid of the 15 min debrief.
The contract allows you to self release with HI3 & HI6 immediately after block in. The 15 minute post flight debrief is still considered for the purposes of determining rest.
By all means, if you think this is all silly crew room business then don't check your HI3&6 and don't pick up your phone when CS calls 10 mins after block in and leaves you a voicemail with a valid flight assignment. Let us know how the grievance goes.
There's no reason I would know any better than the next guy - but to me this "myth" is spelled out pretty clearly.
05-21-2018, 05:27 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
Originally Posted by cabotage
The 15 minute rule "thing" is in FM1, under Crew Qualification and Responsibility, Flight Crew Reporting and Release, Paragraph F. The first sentence:
"Pilots will be released from duty 15 minutes after block in of a flight (30 minutes if required to clear customs), unless required to reposition an aircraft, in which case the release time will be extended as necessary to complete the repositioning."
The pilot contract is not the only document.
That is the second item if you search the FM1 pdf for "15 min".
I agree that relying on "the 15 minute rule" as referenced by "the internet forum" is a great way to get yourself into trouble.
At best, anything you read on internet forums is a pointer for you to research yourself if it is important to you, including this post - you shouldn't just trust my "ctrl+f" abilities, I'm falible and I'm some entity on an internet forum. If this subject is important to you, then follow up on your own until you are comfortable enough with your own knowledge to ignore a CS call after your last leg.
Until then, if you want to go home - HI3 + HI6 (follow up on this yourself).
If you want to fly more, call CS and say "Can I fly more please?" (follow up on this yourself - you have duty limits).
"Pilots will be released from duty 15 minutes after block in of a flight (30 minutes if required to clear customs), unless required to reposition an aircraft, in which case the release time will be extended as necessary to complete the repositioning."
The pilot contract is not the only document.
That is the second item if you search the FM1 pdf for "15 min".
I agree that relying on "the 15 minute rule" as referenced by "the internet forum" is a great way to get yourself into trouble.
At best, anything you read on internet forums is a pointer for you to research yourself if it is important to you, including this post - you shouldn't just trust my "ctrl+f" abilities, I'm falible and I'm some entity on an internet forum. If this subject is important to you, then follow up on your own until you are comfortable enough with your own knowledge to ignore a CS call after your last leg.
Until then, if you want to go home - HI3 + HI6 (follow up on this yourself).
If you want to fly more, call CS and say "Can I fly more please?" (follow up on this yourself - you have duty limits).
05-21-2018, 05:34 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by Pedro4President
So just for clarification we are talking about RESERVE pilots. The section you are referring is referring to all pilots and in response to part 117 rules.
05-21-2018, 05:40 AM
#24
On Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2017
Posts: 24
Really? That's the same section that says Captains are the final authority, deviations from CFR due to emergency, sign in 45 mins prior, so on and so forth.
Again, if you are so confident then don't check HI3 & 6 and don't pick up your phone 15 mins after block in - grieve it and let us know.
But in the grievance they might inform you something along the lines of "reserve pilot fall under the category of all pilots" and you aren't exempt from the "qualifications and responsibilities" section of FM1 just because you are on reserve.
Again, if you are so confident then don't check HI3 & 6 and don't pick up your phone 15 mins after block in - grieve it and let us know.
But in the grievance they might inform you something along the lines of "reserve pilot fall under the category of all pilots" and you aren't exempt from the "qualifications and responsibilities" section of FM1 just because you are on reserve.
05-21-2018, 05:47 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 687
Originally Posted by cabotage
Really? That's the same section that says Captains are the final authority, deviations from CFR due to emergency, sign in 45 mins prior, so on and so forth.
Again, if you are so confident then don't check HI3 & 6 and don't pick up your phone 15 mins after block in - grieve it and let us know.
But in the grievance they might inform you something along the lines of "reserve pilot fall under the category of all pilots" and you aren't exempt from the "qualifications and responsibilities" section of FM1 just because you are on reserve.
Again, if you are so confident then don't check HI3 & 6 and don't pick up your phone 15 mins after block in - grieve it and let us know.
But in the grievance they might inform you something along the lines of "reserve pilot fall under the category of all pilots" and you aren't exempt from the "qualifications and responsibilities" section of FM1 just because you are on reserve.
Stop spreading this terrible advice you are only assisting the company by helping to further confuse your coworkers
05-21-2018, 06:02 AM
#26
On Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2017
Posts: 24
I've made a terrible mistake, I engaged on APC forums.
The only advice i'm spreading is to always screenshot your HI3 & HI6 immediately after block in if you don't want more flying. That way there is no question and you hold your own evidence.
Also, I've been pretty up front that this is my interpretation (however clear it may seem to me) and everyone should do their own research and come to their own conclusions if they care.
Maybe I'm right about 15 mins, maybe I'm wrong - to me it is as clear as day in FM1. Either way, if you check and screenshot there is no question. If you don't then you run the risk of dealing with a grievance (whether the company is in the right by doing so or not) where you're arguing which parts of FM1 apply to you instead of just submitting screenshots.
At the end of the day we've now spent more time bantering about silly non-issues on APC than it would take to screenshot for the rest of the year haha.
The only advice i'm spreading is to always screenshot your HI3 & HI6 immediately after block in if you don't want more flying. That way there is no question and you hold your own evidence.
Also, I've been pretty up front that this is my interpretation (however clear it may seem to me) and everyone should do their own research and come to their own conclusions if they care.
Maybe I'm right about 15 mins, maybe I'm wrong - to me it is as clear as day in FM1. Either way, if you check and screenshot there is no question. If you don't then you run the risk of dealing with a grievance (whether the company is in the right by doing so or not) where you're arguing which parts of FM1 apply to you instead of just submitting screenshots.
At the end of the day we've now spent more time bantering about silly non-issues on APC than it would take to screenshot for the rest of the year haha.
05-21-2018, 07:56 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
Originally Posted by cabotage
I've made a terrible mistake, I engaged on APC forums.
The only advice i'm spreading is to always screenshot your HI3 & HI6 immediately after block in if you don't want more flying. That way there is no question and you hold your own evidence.
Also, I've been pretty up front that this is my interpretation (however clear it may seem to me) and everyone should do their own research and come to their own conclusions if they care.
Maybe I'm right about 15 mins, maybe I'm wrong - to me it is as clear as day in FM1. Either way, if you check and screenshot there is no question. If you don't then you run the risk of dealing with a grievance (whether the company is in the right by doing so or not) where you're arguing which parts of FM1 apply to you instead of just submitting screenshots.
At the end of the day we've now spent more time bantering about silly non-issues on APC than it would take to screenshot for the rest of the year haha.
The only advice i'm spreading is to always screenshot your HI3 & HI6 immediately after block in if you don't want more flying. That way there is no question and you hold your own evidence.
Also, I've been pretty up front that this is my interpretation (however clear it may seem to me) and everyone should do their own research and come to their own conclusions if they care.
Maybe I'm right about 15 mins, maybe I'm wrong - to me it is as clear as day in FM1. Either way, if you check and screenshot there is no question. If you don't then you run the risk of dealing with a grievance (whether the company is in the right by doing so or not) where you're arguing which parts of FM1 apply to you instead of just submitting screenshots.
At the end of the day we've now spent more time bantering about silly non-issues on APC than it would take to screenshot for the rest of the year haha.
Let's be clear. There is ABSOLUTELY no requirement to have a cell phone while on duty. A pilot flying a trip has no responsibility to answer any phone call from crew scheduling. Only a pilot on a RAP is contractually required to return a call from CS. Pilots on ready reserve that doesn't have a cell phone are required to stay in the crew/ready reserve room.
Obviously you are new. I would caution you on reading and taking something at face value because when it comes to our contract it's not always clear cut even though it seems to be.
05-21-2018, 10:40 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by llws
So you've never read FM-1?
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