Cyio

So having a debate amongst a few pilots in regards to the jumpsuit and our commuter policy.

We all agree on the two attempts, that is pretty clear. The discussion comes up from the following example.

Pilot Todd Packer is flying in a day early to ensure that he gets his two attempts in before a reserve shift the next day. Upon arriving to the airport, no seats in the cabin for the first flight are open so the jump seat is offered. Todd, being in casual cloths due to a non-work day declines the offer and is moved to the next flight. Same scenario plays out again and he is unable to get to work and wants to use a commuter policy.

My argument is that from my understanding, the jump seat is completely voluntary and not something has to be accepted if offered. Therefore, I don't believe that you have to accept it in regards to the commuter policy, especially if traveling on a non-work day.

What are your thoughts? Thanks in advance.

Skip0927

Thats all well and good for using the commuter clause but my question is why are you trying to not get to work?

Cyio

Its more of a thought debate rather then an actual attempt to skirt a responsibility. The whole discussion came about because of a conversation about not legally being able to take the jump seat, due to medication or some such and has morphed into this.

There are some real world reasons for this occurring as well, say going to work following a vacation. Easier to just fly in the day early and then go all the way home, but because on vacation, you dont have work cloths on or ironed ready to go.

Again though, it really is more just a friendly discussion regarding our work rules.

highfarfast

For one, you don't have to be in uniform to jumpseat.

It's been a while since I've read the commuter policy (I think it's an LOA and you should probably look there if you're going to try to deny using the jumpseat as an option to get to work) but I don't remember it spelling out that you had to jumpseat if offered. However, I doubt it would go well for you if the CPO knew the jumpseat was available and you did not take it.

That said, my one time experience in using the commuter policy, I don't think they even looked at the load (was Envoy equipment). All they wanted was a boarding pass to prove I was there.

As far as the comment about getting out of work; when you have a two leg commute to work and you're displaced for IOE (yay!) but they leave you one single turn that requires you to overnight with a commuter hotel (if you have one available still), that's when it's worth it to try and get out of work. Had that happen to me twice and swaps and drops would not let me out of it. I still did the turns. I play by the rules but I understand why some don't. If you really want to get out of work, I think there are better ways to do it.

CaptJackSparrow

Well firstly anytime you nonrev you should be wearing clothes suitable to ride the jumpseat. You essentially should be anticipating to be in the jumpseat every time.

Secondly, if any chief pilot dug deep enough to find that you refused the jumpseat then that could be very bad. The contract states "two commuting attempts". If you could have got on a flight and didn't due to your own poor attire planning then that would be your fault and not considered an attempt.

Lastly, I'm sure a chief pilot would consider using any of those missed flights as an "attempt" to be lying and therefore a fireable offense.

If anyone is even considering this I'll say this: Do not ruin something that is good for our pilot group just because you think you can game the system.

Bigpimppilot

I wear shorty shorts when commuting to work. I’m hoping they don’t let me sit in the back

BluePAX

I suppose I’m a bit confused here, correct me if I’m wrong but jumpseating has been fought for and protected to provide commuting opportunities? I think the “I don’t have proper clothing for the cockpit” line is paper thin and wouldn’t hold if anyone found out. GL

ParkingatMIA

Does the commuting policy count if you are trying to get to base from a different location than where you live. For example if I live in Miami, but am on vacation in Orlando and trying to commute from there. How about commuting from Hawaii ?

griff312

NO! Do NOT let this line of thinking become the standard. If you're commuting on a day off, you ARE NOT on duty, you do not have to maintain jumpseat standards, IF you have no intention of riding in the jumpseat. I say this with caution, as you still have to meet company non-rev travel criteria and etiquette. There are cases where you are fine to non-rev to work, but not specifically "JS worthy", (for lack of a better term); ie taking the last round of a disqualifying prescription, being fatigued, or maybe you're in civies, and had a drink at the airport bar. This is all assuming you're commuting a day early, and plan to be legal the next day. Also, maybe the CA denied your access for some reason. I've been denied due to a guy being on ioe, of all things.... But it happens.
My point is, don't let the company think that this is an acceptable thought process. Otherwise your commutes are about to get a LOT more onerous.

Cyio

1. This is some of the examples I was alluding too, mainly thinking fatigue and prescription issues. I agree there are many times when you could be unable to jump seat.

(The rest of these dont necessarily apply to quoted text)

2. To the poster up above saying you should always commute in uniform, I have to say, I firmly disagree with you and think that is a crappy mind set. If I am traveling on a day off, to ensure I get to work early, I dont feel being in uniform should be the norm.

3. I want to point out, this was a thought debate, I am NOT encouraging the use of the commuter policy, especially in the case of intentionally trying to not get to work. However, when they are needed, I have used one, they are good to have and I think it is important to understand the rules.

4. Why would the chief pilot have an issue? Again, if it clearly states in the contract, I couldn't find it, that we MUST accept a JS then I agree, we would be in trouble. However, without that being listed, I dont see why or how we could be in trouble for it. Again, there are many valid reasons why you wouldn't sit in the JS.

Lastly, this all applies, at least in my line of thinking, to flying in on a day OFF, not the same day. The argument kind of goes away if you are traveling on a flying day.

Thanks All, always good to hear both sides of an issue, especially one that isn't clearly laid out.