I don't think we've been talking about training freezes for new hires here.

I mistyped an important word in that. Edited above

Ok so I would like to make sure I have this straight in my head, because a lot has been thrown around here.

Say I want to upgrade on the E75 ORD. If I don’t put a proffer in, I can be displaced into it so long as my displacement list has it as number one.

However, I do run the risk that of all the vacancies are filled by proffers I could be displaced into something else. The gamble here is that I could get displaced into it and agree to the training freeze which would allow me the extra 5 a month plus a longer wait prior to training.

So it’s a matter of taking the thing you want via proffer and being happy with it or gambling that not enough proffers will take it and hope for displacement into that aircraft for the extra money.

Do I have this correct?

There’s been enough said one way or the other here that I would normally suggest asking a union rep but given that the union emails seem to have either wrong or missleading info in them compared to the LOAs, I’m not sure the union reps know. Might be good if someone that’s been through the forced upgrade after these latest LOAs would chime in.

I have an Email into my Rep, will report back what I hear.

-Keep the dirty side down

Standing Vacancy
 

Bump!!!!!

If everyone proffered to displace, vs preference bid for upgrade things here would start to look more like a united group of pilots, things would be more interesting for everyone in the next few months.

Group of guys with hours to upgrade in the next vacancy could be leaving a lot of money on the table it They 3P for a seat locked (upgrade bid) into a sure thing equipment/base, but why when they would have held it anyway had they just placed it at the top of 3D if everyone followed suit in unity. If base QOL, and AA flow are the top goals, a longer senior FO status while receiving CA pay is gold! Especially when getting paid as a CA anyway to sit as a senior FO waiting your turn to upgrade.

I will admittedly say I have a wide smile on my face, really happy for those who take advantage of the opportunity here. Happy flying, seniority, and time at home to those waiting for upgrade training when this happens! Especially during slow months on a fullly staffed FO Rsv list.

No FO should have a preference bid. They should all be displacement bids.

You’re gonna upgrade whether you want to or not, why not get the advantages of a displacement? If your preference can hold it, your displacement can too.

I agree. After struggling with what to do since the last vacancy, I decided against the SV and emptied my 3p and pdis. We should all band together and have a united front. Things are not going to change until people stop showing up in droves and those of us here stop rushing towards CA. In the companies eyes they are winning and until they stop, nothing will change.

I’m in. /10/

OK, well I am on board. I will empty my 3P as well once they unlock it.

Unity

Should be unlocked now.
Fos 3*
3P/CANCEL 1 enter, . . .

You guys realize you just shot yourselves in the foot, right, with this performative statement? Profer to displace is still a displacement; it simply gets first crack at bases and airframes still remaining after pref bids are run. So when y'all get LGA 145 because that's all that's left, when your seniority would've held something better had you profer to displace, have fun. (That's essentially what happened to a guy last vacancy)

Also, unity? Really? Then why is no one running for ORD FO rep besides one dude?

That's not how it works. You displace not into what's left you displace into what you can hold. The only way it bites someone is if the company decides not to displace FOs to CA

Be careful listening to any bidding advice on here.

If I had listened to pedro4president’s advice when I bid for CA upgrade a couple of bids ago, I would’ve missed out on roughly 10k ish of withholding pay.

That was pre standing vacancy bid LOA so the playing field has changed since then.

But everyone’s individual circumstances are different and you should bid whatever best suits your own situation.

The only solid advice that rings true for daily, monthly and vacancy bidding is never bid for anything you don’t want.

Read the LOA and the contract ten times over then bid/proffer accordingly.

The million dollar question I would be asking if I were an FO that hit CA mins for the next bid would be, how many CA slots are there vs amount of eligible FO’s that can upgrade.

I can see valid reasons to not preference bid given the new LOA, but I can’t see any reason to not proffer to displace.

How did I tell you to bid? Also MANY people in our company don't know how it works. Just look two post up from you and you still have a guy thinking you have a better chance to hold something if you proffer to displace vs displace because "it's ran first".

The only difference in proffer to displace vs displace is the order in how you are sent for upgrade training.

Pre LOA when forced upgrades were in full swing you surmised that no one should preference bid at all at the time.

The other difference in proffer to displace vs displace is who gets displaced. If envoy displaces 1 FO from say the ORD 145 and the senior pilot in that equipment proffers to displace. That senior pilot is displaced and not the junior ORD 145 pilot.

So if someone is wanting the upgrade they should put in a proffer to displace. If someone is hoping to hold off on the upgrade and hoping there's enough qualified pilots junior to them they should put in just a displacement preference.

This is the most correct advice on this thread thus far.

Yep. Preference bidding is crazy even pre LOA. 8k plus guaranteed if you don't preference bid vs a 2% chance of getting withheld and making CA pay if you do preference bid. You just got lucky.

Just to clarify, I am not putting in an empty 3p, just the proffer will be empty. I will still have my displacements set.

Also, I am currently in the process of joining several union slots so please keep your assumptions to yourself. Just because I didn’t feel capable of performing the FO rep spot doesn’t mean I can’t be active in other ways.

I didn’t get lucky, I can add.

Obviously no one outside “the circle” in management knows, but the last several bids there has been ZERO chance of not getting displaced to CA. The company is paying a $45K bonus to get DECs. They are not going to let a qualified FO bypass. The last several bids had more openings than qualified FOs. This is on purpose. They have to have openings to create a standing vacancy.

Hoping to hold off your upgrade is like spitting into a F5 tornado and hoping not to get anything all over yourself.

Oh I completely agree. At some point they will stop displacing all the FOs maybe.

Standing Vacancy
 

Give this guy/gal a [emoji514]. This person gets it, unfortunately, the pilot group at large doesn’t quite understand the workings of 3D here.

Again, if your 3P can hold it, your 3D in the same order can hold it.

Do not have anything filled in for your 3P options. Enjoy all the benefits that come with a displacement (3D).


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So, if one is eligible to upgrade at 1000 hrs 121 (ignoring 135 and 91k folks), how many hours do I have if I don’t know how many hours to subtract for all those ferry/maintenance flight I got volunteered for?

Get onto decs and type in hi7y

-Keep the dirty side down

Did that already before I posted

Well...then what's your question? That entry shows exactly what you're looking for.

It’s shows you part 91 time that I flew at envoy? Maybe I missed that part. When I looked it shows company sic time, which matches my total time in the aircraft, along with places to show part 135 and 91k time if I had any, which I don’t. Maybe you aren’t understanding the question

Envoy is part 121 only

You don’t need to subtract anything. Enjoy your upgrade. Your complicating things and it won’t work.

So when your flight release says that the flight is being operated under part 91, that’s just a misnomer on the part of the company?

You only need 950. They are counting the 50 hours of IOE.

You better call the FAA tip hotline. You’re on to something! 😆

I must be a moron or something. I am going through the bidding guide to make sure that I have everything set and I noticed this Proffer to Displace rf message we are supposed to send.

I was under the impression that all we needed to do was leave our 3P empty and fill our our 3D in the order that we want to work it and the system takes care of itself. We would be protected from a seat lock and no flow issues would arise.

Now it seems we need to send RF 100 PDIS and then fill out another set of bids? I know the union tries with their emails and all, but I am just not seeing the big picture here. Can someone, in simple, plain english explain, perhaps by example of what we need to do?

I got the 3P and 3D, its this new third option that I am struggling to get. I would like to be displaced and then accept the training freeze if I get what I want.

When a pilot puts in a proffer to displace they basically take the displacement of a junior pilot in their base who would have been displaced. You don't necessarily need it for these forced upgrades.

OK, so it allows you to take the place of someone that is junior to you if and when they have to run in reverse seniority? Do I have that correct?

Lets say I dont sent that, could someone junior to me get the displacement that I want ahead of me?

Yes you are correct.

If you don't proffer to displace a junior pilot would displace before you got displaced, but if you both end up getting displaced you would end up holding whatever your seniority would hold based on your 3D. The junior pilot wouldn't end up in the position you want without you getting it.

You also miss out on paid move and some other things when you proffer to displace

Anyone have any idea how this vacancy is going to play out? Maybe there will be a new standing vacancy post after the results come out.

August 2016 - January 2017 DOH should be the bulk of the upgrades on this one.