Standing Vacancy
 

Has anyone done this yet? What has your experience been and how long until your scheduled for training?
How long until the pay increase showed up on your check(this goes for those who have accepted the SV and those who were forced)
Also, I cant find it in the contract language, if I were to accept the SV would I get the training freeze pay (5 hour override), or just get the 2 year seat lock? I am assuming the later since this is considered the same as receiving a proffered bid.

I dont know anyone that has done it yet personally.

Does anyone have a link to the exact language of this standing bid?

You cannot put in for the 5hr override. You are voluntarily choosing to be a CA. And yes, you will be seat locked for 2 yrs. you will get CA pay almost immediately. Email pay comp and let them know the date you sent in for CA and were awarded it. Haven’t talked with anyone who has picked a SV yet. I’m sure more details from those pilots will come out soon once we get about a 1-2mon removed from The last vac bid.

Some are on the latest flow plan as STAND

Bump.

Just checking in. Still debating if this is a "good" move. Latest thinking, seems like the only benefit is pic time a few months faster. If anyone can think of any others I'd like to hear them.

Any ideas on if all 3 airplanes listed initially are still available. How far out are class dates on respective airplanes SV bids?

I really think proffer to displace is the way to go. Then volunteer for the seat lock. Do the math on what hourly rate you d be on X 5 hours X 24 months...

If you upgrade via vacancy, you give that up.

On a vacancy, are preferences filled first, then proffers? What I'm getting at, is if I want to stay on the 175 and have it as a preference, would it behoove me to move it to proffer to displace and have no preferences so I could take advantage of the training freeze. Or would they likely be filled before reaching me.

I'm not sure how it will play out... a union rep will be better for answering that question. But consider this, if you are displaced to the wrong airframe, you are not seat locked if you don't accept the training freeze. So don't accept the training freeze and vacancy bid to what you want at the first option if you think it's worth it. You'd end up not getting the training freeze money if it came to it but at least you had a chance at it. In case you haven't done the math, that's over $8,000.

When you are displaced you can displace to whatever frame and seat you can hold.

You want to stay on the 175. Have ZERO preference or proffers!!! It's that simple. Only have all displacements filled in. There is NO reason to have a preference for a CA position. NONE!! End of story. Having a preference does not make it more likely you will get the 175.

Rf 100 pdis
 

What is the purpose of having to enter the RF 100 PDIS?

If you have a displacement preference and the company WILL displace you anyway, what is the point? Will they NOT look at it the displacement preference if you don’t and just get stuck somewhere with a NEB?

Alll of the correspondence from the union on this still sounds as if a qualified FO still has a choice NOT to upgrade. That hasn’t been the case since last October when a few VERY senior FOs slipped by, but they were all tagged in January. If there were not more slots than pilots, there wouldn’t be anything left for a standing vacancy.

Just sounds like double talk and the Union isn’t fully up on what is actually happening.

Exactly. This is about as clear as mud. I'm just trying to get all the facts straight and do what's best for my family, qol and money.

Exactly there is no reason to have a proffer to displace when you know you are going to be displaced.

I'm not really into bashing the union on this but the last time we had a vacancy and displacement they sent their information email out extremely late. I think it was sent a day or two before then I'd closed. They need to be a little more detailed on their explanation of bidding. Their whole packet is confusing.

It's really simple to explain.
1. Always have every displacement position filled out in order from best to worst. ALL THE TIME.
2. Only put a preference if you absolutely want a position and you know you aren't going to get displaced to it.
3. Proffer to displace when you want to displace but don't know for sure you will be displaced.

So you are suggesting to empty my 3p and then build my pdis the way I want it? I missed the last vacancy by about 20 hours so i assume that puts me at the top of the next round. I would prefer to stay 175 for the base and less stressful upgrade but am not opposed to going 145. What I do want to happen is by trying to play the game getting stuck on the crj. I understand about the training freeze and have considered the money that comes with it. But I have also considered taking the SV for the money, going to lga for 3 months and transferring out before the perks end.

Ultimately, I would prefer to stay 175 and am looking at the best way to make that a real possibility.

Roughly what month/year were you hired?

I rewrote my post. I'm saying you don't need a pdis and you should NEVER have a 3p.

Early 17. What's the difference?

Late 2016’s held CA 175 ORD last bid.

It went more junior then that.

Into March or April of 17

-Keep the dirty side down

I'd argue that this is poor guidance. Certainly one shouldn't pref bid in this environment of forced upgrades. However, contractually, profer to displace is run right after pref bids and before straight displacements. Then, when training is assigned, profers get first crack at slots (in seniority order) before pure displacements (reverse seniority order). In my mind, if one truly wants a certain airframe or base, but doesn't want to chance a seat lock, it behooves one to use the profer to displace tool. Then, if you're happy with what you got, volunteer for the seat lock and profit.

What is the training freeze pay rate? 5 hours for 12 or 24 months?

5 for 24. Works out to be just over 8k gross

Per the standing vacancy LOA, it's 5 hr extra pay for 24 months if one volunteers to incur the seat lock after displacement.

So proffers to displacement go to training before displacements? I thought proffer to displace only had to do with the bidding process and once it was done, displaced is displaced.

Have a couple of questions and wanted to see if and how anyone has done it...So i should be right at 950hrs next week.

1-Should i send an rf 950 bid or rf 100 pdis?

2-Once i send it and get the “done” message, how long does it take to know if you where awarded the position?

3-how can you tell that you have been awarded your new capt status, is it through 3npp, hi10?

(I SUCK AT FOS)

Thanks!

See contract section 15.E.1 which states "pilots will be entered into training in order of vacancy bid award, in seniority order, by bid status." The practical effect is that training gets scheduled by pref bid, then profer to displace, then displace.

An example of this is that I, who pref bid, go to training at the beginning of month one. A buddy one seniority number below me, who profer to displace to the same seat, will go at the end of month two. Quite a difference, eh?

I get that preference bids (ie vacancy) go before proffer to displace. You had separated proffer to displace from regular displace for training order purposes, which I've never seen. And I don't see that it says that in 15.E.1 either. I thought proffer to displace and displace went to training as one group, reverse seniority order, after vacancies.

Standing Vacancy
 

This all expires in February 2019 right?

Seems like a trail LOA. I hope to see some type of LOA or even Rsv rules changes prior to the expiration of recent LOAs.

Actually, the reference to the pay for a training freeze is in the Domicile Procedures LOA (17-01) and I don't think it has an expiration.

The LOA that expires feb 2019 is the one pertaining to FOs bidding reserve and being assigned trips. It is seperate from the other LOAs announced at the same time.

Ok so sending a proffer to displace you get maybe 30-60 hrs PIC time more than a displacement bid. There's no other benefit to proffering to displace. Unless someone wants to poke another hole in my bidding rationale.

However when you proffer to displace you leave thousands of dollars on the table, and possibly less time on reserve sitting airport standby.

Is there a way to cancel a proffer to displace. Or is it only active for the bid closing date on the rf100 pdis. (Right now this shows the July vacancy). Meaning. I had it selected on the last bid.

I would check with the union since Domicile Procedures LOA referenced above says: “ II. Whenever a CAPTAIN is displaced ... yada yada ... 5 hours per month... etc”
So make sure it applies to FO->CA displacements...

Dang man, good catch. Guess I need to look for something else to exploit. :-\

Edit: On second thought, I just went back and reread the union email regarding this (subject: Displaced? Action Required by July 24, 2018). First, it explicitely states in the first paragraph "from a captain status" to be eligible but then second paragraph says 15.G.4'd into a captain status and then gives table that clearly shows FO displaced to CA being able to volunteer for the training freeze.

So, I guess this is covered somewhere in the contract/LOAs but I'm not sure where. I'm not likely to be qualified on the next bid if they do them every three months like they have been so this is on the back burner for me.

You guys are also missing one benefit to standing vacancy. You start getting captain pay right away while being a sr FO.

It doesn't matter the method of getting your captain status. Once awarded, you get captain pay while you're a senior FO waiting on training. I prefer the option of being displaced and going into training in reverse seniority order after all vacacnies such that I spend the longest amount of time possible as a senior FO on CA pay while also still receiving the FO retention bonus until fed ride.

From the mouth of the union.....the retention bonus stops as soon as CA pay is awarded.

(Edit) I thought this too. Even saw it in an email but was promptly shut down when I asked about it.

Hmmm, I remember seeing it in an email too which is why I said it. I'm going to have to go back and read the LOAs. I don't remember seeing anything that said the condition of the bonuses had changed.

Finally read the LOA and ya it says “when a first officer is awarded a captain status he will, for the purposes and vacancy bidding only, be considered to hold his awarded captain status and receive the appropriate hourly wage as if he had attained his captain status.”

Also, two pages before that it says the loa eliminates all training freezes for new hires...

The union email I remembered states "For those who are awarded CA pay upon award via the First Officer Advancement Program LOA, you continue to receive your retention payments under the provisions set by that LOA until "the pilot completes Captain upgrade training (Change in Status).""

And the email is dated after the latest LOAs. So the union was expecting this to play out as though you get captain pay on award and retention bonus until fed ride. But the quote from the LOA you have seems to say otherwise. Maybe the union got duped.

In any case, I still think you're better off trying to stay senior FO on CA pay rates as long as possible which is why you shouldn't vacancy bid.