Attitude
 

This.

I've been looking forward to coming to Envoy for about a year or so now after finally reaching minimums I'm going into the next class as a cadet. Usually, I just read posts but now I am having second thoughts about coming here because there are fellow pilots on here that decide to post threads bashing some guy with a vlog.

Is this a joke? I really would like to know what it is that makes the pilots on this particular forum so salty about everything, it's very off-putting coming to an airline I'm excited to join just to find pilot's continuously complaining about everything. I don't see this even see this kind of behavior on Mesa's forums, it's pathetic.

I'm not saying that everything about Envoy is peachy perfect, nor am I saying that I am an always "positive vibes" kind of guy. But this kind of negative bull**** has to stop. From what I hear in person, Envoy is still considered a top-tier regional.

It is evident by the fact that we started a thread bashing someone with hopes and dreams to fly for the airlines, just like the rest of us. It is evident that we have a program like a flow that doesn't work in their favor because it is not quick enough. The flow thing isn't even designed to be your only hope to getting into the majors yet there are pilots on here that bash it probably because they can't get in without it (which is fine but respect the process).

Writing on this forum won't do much, I have listed concerns to management and they actually tend to listen to ideas if you take the time to let them know. That is one of the strongest ways to change a company besides complaining on the sidelines.

As to that thread, yes I have met Swayne and he is not as much of a douche as I initially thought he was. But I still would have posted this anyways even if he was.

If there are issues, let's work together as a team. I understand the need to vent, but we can always think together and generate ideas that can make Envoy better than it is instead of getting behind a keyboard and venting to people who are just as powerless as I am to change anything.

Envoy’s fine, bud. You’ll enjoy flying with the crews (barring the few usual types that every airline has floating around). A lot of what you see on here is keyboard cowboy stuff that these guys would never say in person. A couple of beverages and a mobile device make the “best” come out in some people.

Also, the entitled bunch tends to hit the forums. They feel like everyone owes them something because reserve lasted more than a month, they didn’t get the plane they wanted, flow is too long for their taste, etc. Always the same b.s.

That said, I have also gotten some pretty useful info from the forums. It just depends which way the wind is blowing that day.

Welcome to the airlines! Enjoy it because it sure beats being a CFI. I never worked harder than when I was flight instructing. Envoy felt like a vacation.

Oh, and they’ll complain that Cadets shouldn’t get top pick in class. Good luck! ;D

I’d suggest maybe going to XJT or TSA. They have all the “positive vibes” these days. ;)

I think you lost your message.

This will be good...:D

You seem more like Skywest material.....maybe you should reconsider coming here.

How's that

TLTR

Filler

Thank you, thats nice to hear, I'm looking forawrd to it!

Hmm why is that?

You can keep him...:confused::eek::D

"...but we can always think together and generate ideas that can make Envoy better..."

You won't find a culture at Envoy that is all about "thinking together". The reality is that half of the airline was hired in the last 3 years, and there's a major difference in the point of view towards what needs to happen next here. That doesn't mean you'll have a bad experience, you'll get along with most people like others have mentioned. It's just that unity is not the first word that comes to mind when describing the pilot group here.

Idk man if you can’t let people be people from time to time maybe Envoy isn’t for you. You probably would enjoy the culture at Skywest more, I’ve found them a lot more homogenous personality wise.

Don’t delete Skip that was a good rant

I never said that is wasn't ok to vent. But I believe my point is being proven by telling me not to come here because I am being optomistic, it's toxic. We don't know each other and I'm not saying you're a bad person, maybe you are trying to help which I appreciate. But by telling me to go to Skywest (was a cadet there too) because I'm trying to stick up for a company who I believe in and trying to get me to turn away hurts Envoy, which is dissapointing because they believed enough in you to hire you (whether you work there or not).

Other prospective pilots read these forms and unfortunately some jaded perspectives tend to sway thoughts on a company that could have been a great fit had it not been for the negativity.

Lol I got off of your guy's kool-aid real quick thankfully.

Can we find a mod to delete both these threads and pretend they never happened?

Lol, I made a good faith effort to defuse without a rainbow enema and he doubled down. I give up, welcome to Envoy.

I don’t want to trigger you again but it might not be a bad idea to make sure your “optimism” doesn’t come off as judgmental when you call me toxic etc. for suggesting a job where you’d obviously be happier. Not very optimistic of you there speedbird.

What? Like a guy looking for self worth validation from his employer and work friends could get disillusioned by the corporation that held Eagle submissively on the ropes with a figurative gun to its head.

Those negative people you reference came to Envoy just as positive and starry eyed as you.

They aren’t negative attitudes due to negative people. These posts come from experience and management culture. Non creative welcome aboard. Please reread this thread in six months to a year for perspective

“because I'm trying to stick up for a company who I believe in and trying to get me to turn away hurts Envoy,”

Envoy management turned their back on 1000 pilots a few years ago and told them to restart at psa or piedmont. Your not going to make a hurt difference.

Thanks. Thought better of it

While I am somewhat new to the company I can wholeheartedly say that you shouldn’t be sticking up for this company, or any airline really. There is a sharp divide between Managment and labor and the company will not stick up for you beyond what they are legally required too. Your Union is the one that does that, in therory.

Anyway, I have had a fantastic experience with Envoy crews so far, so don’t misinterpret what people are saying. Lots of the posters on here were around during the **** days and watched the company screw them over without mercy, so while you have a very optimistic and positive approach to it, others see the writing on the wall.

My biggest fear as that all of this optimism and positive advancement is going to make our pilot group complacent and when things go to hell, which they will again, we won’t have any seasoned union guys/gals to step up.

It’s easy to be rosy and starry eyed when the company is throwing money around but understand, the very moment they don’t have to, they won’t. The company is playing nice for their benefit, not ours.

Lastly, like I said, I have had a great experience and hope it continues, just don’t come on here expecting those that have seen the dark side to just roll over.

Attitude
 

Bravo!!! I felt the same as you, not knowing the guy, I felt bad reading some of the post about the guy! It makes this REGIONAL AIRLINE look really bad and unprofessional to bad mouth someone publicly or publicly try to shame him without knowing him or who he is as a person. It’s unprofessional.

When I first came here it was the culture and image of eagle pilots I admired most, along with bonus, better pay, half a decade land of milk & honey flow.

But there are folks here that think just because they have been here XX amount of years (too long), their voice is greater and grander than someone else and that humble factor that is a admirable character is non-existent. I respect longevity I really do. But to tarnish another persons character out of JEALOUSY is very tacky, unprofessional, and lady dog (bishhy).


Op, pass on to Swayne & to you also that online perspective of a few are not a indication of the large majority or the masses! Welcome Onboard! Large Majority of the pilots on here and in the fleet is and will be very glad to have you & looking forward to flying with you and hearing of the overall life experiences you’ve had.

I too felt sick reading posts on here abt that guy, I had log in issues and could not post,. And quite frankly I was sick of reading the haters & jealous folks posts, I took a break from APC, and went back to “JC” com where the overall pilots there are a lot more professional & with character.

These online forums can be depressing and harsh and not reflect reality sometime. Overall there are many things such as Reserve rules and pay/soft pay, QOL issues that need fixing, but overall, I have to say this Airline (due to industry trends and pressure) is a much better place to work than years ago.

The industry is changing so fast OP, continue to think long-term if you were stuck at a regional where would you go, since it will not always be roses! Continue to ask yourself, outside the flow (pay, QOL, crap Flight files and schedules from mainline, health care, Retirement, 401K, soft pay, contract language, 12yr+ CA Pay long term if you were stuck here), would you come here ? Or go to Endeavor, Republic, Air Wisconsin, (or even Piedmont with 300% OT), etc. overall, something for all interested to consider.

Your a good person for standing up to the inter-web text bullies!

Personally, never touch the stuff myself(doesn't mix well with Bacardi or Vodka)... ;) :p

Thank you, I appreciate that! Idk I feel bad about the past guys but they like to take it out on the younger crowd as if we were at fault for the industry is the way it is today.


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Have you tried Grey Goose? You might like that if you could afford it with that Skywest pay (sorry I just had to get a jab in there couldn't pass up that opportunity [emoji12])

Seriously though, I hope you guys do get a better contract soon.


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Being so idealistic is commendable. Like rookie police officers. Ready to save the world. The one thing I always like to caution. It’s just a job. No one owes you a thing. So when you get let down by something or you get jammed up...it’s business as usual. Keep your head up and ride out. Because big corporations are too big to fail and “camaraderie” is an old word that isn’t really used much anymore unfortunately.

True. But if they **** everyone off collectively only then will it become a problem, which I don’t think they are trying to actively do. To me I hope this isn’t a job because I’m very passionate about flying in general and that’s not working to me. It’s just depressing seeing guys who have given up to come on here and rip on a company that isn’t even that bad


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Dude you don't even work here how could you have any idea that it isn't even that bad. Good luck on reserve bet showing up to the airport at 6 am 7 times a month to sit and do nothing for 8 hours at a time won't even be that bad.

Exactly^^^

Guess what “dude” I don’t care if that happens cause I don’t whine and complain like you do. Seriously why don’t you go work an accounting job then, you knew what you were getting into unless you didn’t read the contract which I’m guessing you didn’t.


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But yeah, keep discouraging new pilots from coming here instead of acting like a professional and offering advice/help. I do have an idea from the friends and other professionals I know that work at Envoy that DO NOT COMPLAIN and make the best of it.

This should go without saying, but may have gone over your head; but those that are “discouraging new pilots from coming here” are attempting to make the pay/working conditions better by forcing the company’s hand.


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I'm not discouraging. I get upset when someone who doesn't work here tries to tell us how good it actually is. Read a contract that's great but you may not realize how it is intetpretted by the company and how we have to fight just for black and white language. Work here for a year before you pontificate how good or bad this company actually is.

Like I said earlier, I think you are in for a very LONG career or a very short one. If you get your feelings hurt because of some postings, you have a pretty thin skin. Professional aviation is not for the thin skinned or faint of heart.

It’s pretty easy to say something when you’re not the one doing it.

Attitude
 

[MENTION=78225]UncreativeUser[/MENTION] all I can recommend is, if you want a long stress free career stay away from the job complaint boards.

There are pro and cons here like any company. Pilots love to complain, moreso here than elsewhere because of the ‘nasty’ history between line pilot and the way management has treated them will not be forgotten. Nobody trust them, and rightfully so. Best thing to do as a new guy/girl is to just nod and say “Ummmhmmm, I hear ya” when someone complains about this company. It’s been a wild ride for them and they deserve to vent.

You will read more complaints than positivity in these boards same with the Line when you get there. On these board we all know mgmt folks keep tabs and read what is being said occasionally. APC is not nearly as bad as airlinetalk as a forum/board.

Folks get labeled easily on these boards as well. Mention “this is a great place to work, flow is working” your taunted as mgmt or recruiters. Those who complain are labeled grumpy groots.

Everyone has a opinion, the opinions I personally care most are from those who cared enough to volunteer with ALPA in various positions, those in management positions, and the opinions from the experienced school house members.

The rest who complain so passionately online yet do nothing about it except move their fingers on boards are wheel chair quarterbacks who got funked so hard they still need to vent. Just nod your head and say “Ummhmmm.”

Nothing will make some of these people happy. Even if they flowed, they will find plenty to be grumpy about at AA. Sometimes the best thing to do is not to respond. Pros and cons here. Everyone agrees Rsv rules need to catch up with the times here. It’s below standard. Long call Rsv is over due, as well as better flight files sent to us from AA to build better trips and schedules with. There are many things that need improvement here. But there are also many good things happening and in the works.,

This industry is changing fast. The future of this carrier is still bright. Timing is key. Again welcome aboard, large majority here are all glad to have you.

Please rescind your offer and go somewhere else

I had the same feelings as you did before coming here. Your opinion is meaningless until you hit the line.

I love all you guys who complain about a job where you get paid to show up and do nothing. I’d love you to complain about standby to pretty much any other labor employee on earth. Try construction or landscaping if you want to know about what tough work conditions can be.

Guys that complain about standby either have never held a non-flying job, or have no entrepreneurial spirit. Standby = more time to make money from your side hustle.