Union question
11-20-2018, 10:36 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by NoValueAviator
The second and lasts paragraphs are the answer to your question. In your analogy, you are a buggy driver but you are welcome to advocate against your own interests if you want. You still have to pay the dues though.
11-20-2018, 10:43 AM
#32
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People who doggedly and blindly defend unions certainly do get their panties in a wad pretty quickly. The first few replies seemed to have actually understood the question, then suddenly the discussion turned to people defending the need for our union and then quickly onto defending the idea of unions in general and how horrible the world would be without them.
Restated, the original question is, the important stuff is done by local volunteers, the lobbying stuff is done by a PAC not funded by dues, so what do the dues pay for? The question is not questioning the existence, need, or benefit of the union. The question is where does the money go? Is their a budget we can view? Is there an audit? Or do we give them millions of dollars each year and have no idea how it is spent?
Restated, the original question is, the important stuff is done by local volunteers, the lobbying stuff is done by a PAC not funded by dues, so what do the dues pay for? The question is not questioning the existence, need, or benefit of the union. The question is where does the money go? Is their a budget we can view? Is there an audit? Or do we give them millions of dollars each year and have no idea how it is spent?
11-20-2018, 10:59 AM
#33
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Posts: 579
Originally Posted by DreadWing
Millennial claptrap. Try living as a ****ing expat in a command economy nation; there's a reason the countries with the highest quality of life/purchasing power index are powered by market economies.
Corruptions like central banks, fiat currency, and corporatist elements within government aside (these are details that can be sorted intelligently), there is no CREDIBLE alternative that addresses the fundamental process of how resources/property are to be justly divided.
There is simply no empirical EVIDENCE for your exotic claim that capitalist economies are the "most anti-free to have ever existed," I'm afraid.
https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-li...jsp?title=2018
Corruptions like central banks, fiat currency, and corporatist elements within government aside (these are details that can be sorted intelligently), there is no CREDIBLE alternative that addresses the fundamental process of how resources/property are to be justly divided.
There is simply no empirical EVIDENCE for your exotic claim that capitalist economies are the "most anti-free to have ever existed," I'm afraid.
https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-li...jsp?title=2018
Not that your reaction is all too surprising, as I said in my original post it is the very fairy tale that you are clinging to which keeps the capitalist class system in place, and your dependence on a union necessary.
If you care to venture outside of the neat little box that your public education has spoon fed you, there is a world out there that you haven’t even heard of before. Given your decidedly deep capitalist defense mechanisms I would suggest authors like Frederic Bastiat, Ludwig von Mises, Murray Rothbard and Hans Herman Hoppe to ease your transition, these won’t be as much of a shock to your system. If you’d like to jump in with eyes wide open you may prefer Pierre Joseph Proudhon, Lysander Spooner, Benjamin Tucker or Volatarine de Cleyre. If you’d like some more modern day authors Charles W. Johnson, Gary Chartier, Roderick T. Long and Kevin Carson are great contemporaries of the free market movement. If you prefer fiction Jean Baudrillards discussions of Simulacra through the mechanism of dystopian future science fiction that in fact tracks present day realities are quite good, an updated George Orwell if you will.
There are more than the two choices you have been presented, you should really use your faculties to discover all of the options rather than accepting what you are presented without question.
11-20-2018, 11:09 AM
#34
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Originally Posted by FollowMe
Public school system drivel. The “corruptions” that you speak of are the core elements that make up capitalism. Do not mistake Capitalism for a free market, it is as centrally controlled as a Communist market, the planners simply refer to themselves as businessmen rather than beurocrats. The notion that capital creates value has no place in free markets nor in American economy, just ask Adam Smith the father of American economics who coined the labor theory of value, which rightfully identifies labor as the only value creator in practice.
Not that your reaction is all too surprising, as I said in my original post it is the very fairy tale that you are clinging to which keeps the capitalist class system in place, and your dependence on a union necessary.
If you care to venture outside of the neat little box that your public education has spoon fed you, there is a world out there that you haven’t even heard of before. Given your decidedly deep capitalist defense mechanisms I would suggest authors like Frederic Bastiat, Ludwig von Mises, Murray Rothbard and Hans Herman Hoppe to ease your transition, these won’t be as much of a shock to your system. If you’d like to jump in with eyes wide open you may prefer Pierre Joseph Proudhon, Lysander Spooner, Benjamin Tucker or Volatarine de Cleyre. If you’d like some more modern day authors Charles W. Johnson, Gary Chartier, Roderick T. Long and Kevin Carson are great contemporaries of the free market movement. If you prefer fiction Jean Baudrillards discussions of Simulacra through the mechanism of dystopian future science fiction that in fact tracks present day realities are quite good, an updated George Orwell if you will.
There are more than the two choices you have been presented, you should really use your faculties to discover all of the options rather than accepting what you are presented without question.
Not that your reaction is all too surprising, as I said in my original post it is the very fairy tale that you are clinging to which keeps the capitalist class system in place, and your dependence on a union necessary.
If you care to venture outside of the neat little box that your public education has spoon fed you, there is a world out there that you haven’t even heard of before. Given your decidedly deep capitalist defense mechanisms I would suggest authors like Frederic Bastiat, Ludwig von Mises, Murray Rothbard and Hans Herman Hoppe to ease your transition, these won’t be as much of a shock to your system. If you’d like to jump in with eyes wide open you may prefer Pierre Joseph Proudhon, Lysander Spooner, Benjamin Tucker or Volatarine de Cleyre. If you’d like some more modern day authors Charles W. Johnson, Gary Chartier, Roderick T. Long and Kevin Carson are great contemporaries of the free market movement. If you prefer fiction Jean Baudrillards discussions of Simulacra through the mechanism of dystopian future science fiction that in fact tracks present day realities are quite good, an updated George Orwell if you will.
There are more than the two choices you have been presented, you should really use your faculties to discover all of the options rather than accepting what you are presented without question.
11-20-2018, 11:11 AM
#35
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Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by Naviator
People who doggedly and blindly defend unions certainly do get their panties in a wad pretty quickly. The first few replies seemed to have actually understood the question, then suddenly the discussion turned to people defending the need for our union and then quickly onto defending the idea of unions in general and how horrible the world would be without them.
Restated, the original question is, the important stuff is done by local volunteers, the lobbying stuff is done by a PAC not funded by dues, so what do the dues pay for? The question is not questioning the existence, need, or benefit of the union. The question is where does the money go? Is their a budget we can view? Is there an audit? Or do we give them millions of dollars each year and have no idea how it is spent?
Restated, the original question is, the important stuff is done by local volunteers, the lobbying stuff is done by a PAC not funded by dues, so what do the dues pay for? The question is not questioning the existence, need, or benefit of the union. The question is where does the money go? Is their a budget we can view? Is there an audit? Or do we give them millions of dollars each year and have no idea how it is spent?
DAMN. Wow...dreams CAN come true...
11-20-2018, 11:34 AM
#37
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Posts: 44
Originally Posted by FollowMe
Public school system drivel.
Your exotic claim is credulous hysteria. Even a CASUAL glance of the current global quality of life/purchasing power index FLATLY proves as much.
As I said: try living as an expat in a DEFINABLE command economy. Your particular species of alarmist nonsense only works on idiot-American provincials under the PROVABLE delusion they're living under the "most anti-free economy to have existed" because they haven't had to endure the authoritarian caprice of ACTUAL central planners in competing economic systems.
Originally Posted by FollowMe
There are more than the two choices you have been presented, you should really use your faculties to discover all of the options rather than accepting what you are presented without question.
11-20-2018, 12:04 PM
#38
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Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 579
Originally Posted by DreadWing
You're confused, soultrain. "Public school system drivel" is a better descriptor for the millennial mewling you dropped a few posts back; idiot-American public education institutions are the "patient zero" for spreading the imbecilic propaganda that the PRESENT American economic system, with its incidental corruptions as they exist NOW, is the "most anti-free economy to have existed."
Your exotic claim is credulous hysteria. Even a CASUAL glance of the current global quality of life/purchasing power index FLATLY proves as much.
As I said: try living as an expat in a DEFINABLE command economy. Your particular species of alarmist nonsense only works on idiot-American provincials under the PROVABLE delusion they're living under the "most anti-free economy to have existed" because they haven't had to endure the authoritarian caprice of ACTUAL central planners in competing economic systems.
We're not talking about choices...do try and keep up. We're addressing your HILARIOUSLY exotic claims (i.e. "capitalism is most anti-free economy to have existed.").
Your exotic claim is credulous hysteria. Even a CASUAL glance of the current global quality of life/purchasing power index FLATLY proves as much.
As I said: try living as an expat in a DEFINABLE command economy. Your particular species of alarmist nonsense only works on idiot-American provincials under the PROVABLE delusion they're living under the "most anti-free economy to have existed" because they haven't had to endure the authoritarian caprice of ACTUAL central planners in competing economic systems.
We're not talking about choices...do try and keep up. We're addressing your HILARIOUSLY exotic claims (i.e. "capitalism is most anti-free economy to have existed.").
Remind me again why you belong to a union? Clearly this robust and free capitalist market would reward you for your skill far more if you weren’t restrained by the forced mediocrity of collective bargaining, right?
11-20-2018, 01:16 PM
#40
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Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 198
Originally Posted by DreadWing
You're confused, soultrain. "Public school system drivel" is a better descriptor for the millennial mewling you dropped a few posts back; idiot-American public education institutions are the "patient zero" for spreading the imbecilic propaganda that the PRESENT American economic system, with its incidental corruptions as they exist NOW, is the "most anti-free economy to have existed."
Your exotic claim is credulous hysteria. Even a CASUAL glance of the current global quality of life/purchasing power index FLATLY proves as much.
As I said: try living as an expat in a DEFINABLE command economy. Your particular species of alarmist nonsense only works on idiot-American provincials under the PROVABLE delusion they're living under the "most anti-free economy to have existed" because they haven't had to endure the authoritarian caprice of ACTUAL central planners in competing economic systems.
We're not talking about choices...do try and keep up. We're addressing your HILARIOUSLY exotic claims (i.e. "capitalism is most anti-free economy to have existed.").
Your exotic claim is credulous hysteria. Even a CASUAL glance of the current global quality of life/purchasing power index FLATLY proves as much.
As I said: try living as an expat in a DEFINABLE command economy. Your particular species of alarmist nonsense only works on idiot-American provincials under the PROVABLE delusion they're living under the "most anti-free economy to have existed" because they haven't had to endure the authoritarian caprice of ACTUAL central planners in competing economic systems.
We're not talking about choices...do try and keep up. We're addressing your HILARIOUSLY exotic claims (i.e. "capitalism is most anti-free economy to have existed.").
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