Envoy Reserve Times
So far my friends that started at Envoy in early 18 are still on reserve. Does anyone know if there is a plan to bring it down? I think a year on reserve is a new hire FO seems excessive
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Originally Posted by AV8R72
(Post 2783313)
So far my friends that started at Envoy in late early 18 are still on reserve. Does anyone know if there is a plan to bring it down? I think a year on reserve is a new hire FO seems excessive
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Originally Posted by AV8R72
(Post 2783313)
So far my friends that started at Envoy in late early 18 are still on reserve. Does anyone know if there is a plan to bring it down? I think a year on reserve is a new hire FO seems excessive
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Originally Posted by dera
(Post 2783318)
It's only a few months on the 175 side.
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Originally Posted by AV8R72
(Post 2783319)
What would the odds of a 38 year old getting the 175? If I understand right, it’s cadets, prior 121, then age....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xjr2hnOHiM |
Originally Posted by AV8R72
(Post 2783319)
What would the odds of a 38 year old getting the 175? If I understand right, it’s cadets, prior 121, then age....
If you gotta fly the 175 it's probably best you work for Compass or Republic. There is a decent chance you could end up being thoroughly disappointed. -Keep the dirty side down |
Originally Posted by 3GreenKSNA
(Post 2783327)
About as good as throwing darts at a dart board blindfolded, with someone thay keeps changing the size of the board and bullseye.
If you gotta fly the 175 it's probably best you work for Compass or Republic. There is a decent chance you could end up being thoroughly disappointed. -Keep the dirty side down |
Originally Posted by AV8R72
(Post 2783330)
I don’t care what I fly, just want to build 121 time. I think I’m down to Envoy and GoJet. I think I know the pros and cons of both, but the big question mark is reserve time oath envoy. That’s the one thing that makes me lean more toward GoJet
But whatever you do, don't go to GoJet. |
Originally Posted by dera
(Post 2783331)
Go where you can drive to work.
But whatever you do, don't go to GoJet. Envoy would be my choice if I knew I wasn’t gonna sit reserve for 8-12 months. |
Originally Posted by AV8R72
(Post 2783330)
I don’t care what I fly, just want to build 121 time. I think I’m down to Envoy and GoJet. I think I know the pros and cons of both, but the big question mark is reserve time oath envoy. That’s the one thing that makes me lean more toward GoJet
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Originally Posted by AV8R72
(Post 2783333)
Can you expand on that? I live in Little Rock so I can’t drive to any regional. What I like about GoJet is no reserve, 26k bonus the first year, upgrade around 13 months after IOE, and very short reserve for CA’s.
Envoy would be my choice if I knew I wasn’t gonna sit reserve for 8-12 months. |
Originally Posted by pitchattitude
(Post 2783337)
Everyone thinks “I just need some 121 time.” Unless you are one of the small group that adds diversity to the hiring pool, there is so much more to the equation. You need to consider QOL along the way.
I like Envoy’s bases, non rev bennies, and of course the opportunity to eventually flow, but the reserve time makes me apprehensive |
Originally Posted by AV8R72
(Post 2783333)
Can you expand on that? I live in Little Rock so I can’t drive to any regional. What I like about GoJet is no reserve, 26k bonus the first year, upgrade around 13 months after IOE, and very short reserve for CA’s.
Envoy would be my choice if I knew I wasn’t gonna sit reserve for 8-12 months. What kind of commute are you going to have at GoJet? How quick can you get to ORD? Pretty sure everything else is going to be either two legs and or low density route. |
Originally Posted by pitchattitude
(Post 2783343)
Not that I want to guide you to ENY, but if you have to stay in LIT, ENY is a good choice for a commuter. About as high a chance as any to get ORD and both 145 and 175 are in ORD and DFW. DFW is probably even a better commute but longer to get.
What kind of commute are you going to have at GoJet? How quick can you get to ORD? Pretty sure everything else is going to be either two legs and or low density route. |
Originally Posted by AV8R72
(Post 2783342)
So a year of reserve at Envoy is a better QOL than a year on the line at GoJet?
I like Envoy’s bases, non rev bennies, and of course the opportunity to eventually flow, but the reserve time makes me apprehensive No reserves means the lineholders are the reserve. |
Originally Posted by pitchattitude
(Post 2783343)
Not that I want to guide you to ENY, but if you have to stay in LIT, ENY is a good choice for a commuter. About as high a chance as any to get ORD and both 145 and 175 are in ORD and DFW. DFW is probably even a better commute but longer to get.
What kind of commute are you going to have at GoJet? How quick can you get to ORD? Pretty sure everything else is going to be either two legs and or low density route. |
Originally Posted by dera
(Post 2783348)
You're making career decisions based on first 8-12 months of your career? That's insane.
No reserves means the lineholders are the reserve. I know the pros and cons are more gay just what you can put on paper. It looks like I would reach 1000 121 TPIC almost a year earlier at GoJet What am I missing? |
Originally Posted by AV8R72
(Post 2783351)
I did a spreadsheet and tried to balance money and time. Within 36 months I’ll be over 600 more 121 TPIC at GoJet than at Envoy and about 25k more money.
I know the pros and cons are more gay just what you can put on paper. It looks like I would reach 1000 121 TPIC almost a year earlier at GoJet What am I missing? |
Originally Posted by pitchattitude
(Post 2783352)
You need to be asking that question on the GoJet thread.
I’m coming over from being a military rotor guy, so what QOL issues do you guys say are the most important |
Originally Posted by AV8R72
(Post 2783351)
I did a spreadsheet and tried to balance money and time. Within 36 months I’ll be over 600 more 121 TPIC at GoJet than at Envoy and about 25k more money.
I know the pros and cons are more gay just what you can put on paper. It looks like I would reach 1000 121 TPIC almost a year earlier at GoJet What am I missing? Envoy will very likely still be running in 3-4 years. GoJet, who knows. It's not an airline, it's a staffing company. 600TPIC. Then what? You really believe 1000TPIC is when you will suddenly get a call from a major? That's not how it works. |
Originally Posted by AV8R72
(Post 2783353)
The sky is falling at every regional on every post an APC. My friends at GoJet say they’re happy, but they may just want the referral bonus.
I’m coming over from being a military rotor guy, so what QOL issues do you guys say are the most important |
Originally Posted by AV8R72
(Post 2783351)
I did a spreadsheet and tried to balance money and time. Within 36 months I’ll be over 600 more 121 TPIC at GoJet than at Envoy and about 25k more money.
I know the pros and cons are more gay just what you can put on paper. It looks like I would reach 1000 121 TPIC almost a year earlier at GoJet What am I missing? My biggest gripes about Envoy is the long reserve times and bad schedules right now. A mid-level line holder at Envoy will have a worse schedule than a junior line holder at a good regional. Commuting to reserve at Envoy is the worst QOL time period you will ever experience. Junior Reserve Commuter is the absolute worst position for any of the regional airlines. I wish you had a third option to choose. I can't believe I'm saying this but I think short and long run GoJet may be a better choice. Anyone know what it's like to commute from LIT to ORD? |
Originally Posted by dera
(Post 2783355)
Or you can get 175 at Envoy, fly a lot, and be ahead. Pick your poison. Envoy to ORD is a much easier commute, than GoJet to ORD.
Envoy will very likely still be running in 3-4 years. GoJet, who knows. It's not an airline, it's a staffing company. 600TPIC. Then what? You really believe 1000TPIC is when you will suddenly get a call from a major? That's not how it works. You do make a good point about viability. I would suggest he check into GoJet contracts and see how long until they expire. |
Originally Posted by dera
(Post 2783355)
Or you can get 175 at Envoy, fly a lot, and be ahead. Pick your poison. Envoy to ORD is a much easier commute, than GoJet to ORD.
Envoy will very likely still be running in 3-4 years. GoJet, who knows. It's not an airline, it's a staffing company. 600TPIC. Then what? You really believe 1000TPIC is when you will suddenly get a call from a major? That's not how it works. Here’s a little about me. I’ve got about 5k rotor hours, a masters degree, IP in 2 helps, and making the jump with 15 years in the army. |
Originally Posted by Pedro4President
(Post 2783361)
Ok ok ok.... Ill help you out. It's GoJet and they have a negative reputation on the forums. Before you go there I'd suggest you look a little bit more into them. You seem to understand Envoy pretty well and I think you are leaning towards GoJet but find it easier to commute on Envoy. 90% chance you get the 145 or CRJ if you come to Envoy.
My biggest gripes about Envoy is the long reserve times and bad schedules right now. A mid-level line holder at Envoy will have a worse schedule than a junior line holder at a good regional. Commuting to reserve at Envoy is the worst QOL time period you will ever experience. Junior Reserve Commuter is the absolute worst position for any of the regional airlines. I wish you had a third option to choose. I can't believe I'm saying this but I think short and long run GoJet may be a better choice. Anyone know what it's like to commute from LIT to ORD? And junior reserve commuter isn't the worst place to be, you actually get to fly quite a bit. It's the mid-junior point when a class or two after you finish IOE when you're too "senior" to get used but too junior to get any proffers when things seem to suck more. If you want bad reserve rules, look at CommutAir. Commuting to reserve sucks everywhere, but a short staffed airline might be even worse. Hello JM's and extensions. Who cares if you hold a line, when lineholders are the reserve. And for a rotor guy, AQP is worth quite a bit. |
Originally Posted by AV8R72
(Post 2783364)
I’m not saying that at all. I’m asking questions simply because I do not know and want to make a good choice.
Here’s a little about me. I’ve got about 5k rotor hours, a masters degree, IP in 2 helps, and making the jump with 15 years in the army. |
Originally Posted by Pedro4President
(Post 2783363)
I love it when guys give advice on how to get to a major without being at a major. And yes flight time does count. Just because it isn't the only thing that counts doesn't mean that it isn't important.
You do make a good point about viability. I would suggest he check into GoJet contracts and see how long until they expire. Flight time does count, but 1000TPIC is not a trigger when you suddenly start getting calls. His hours are rotary, and looking at the RTP guys I know, those hours aren't the same as FW hours when trying to get hired elsewhere. I would value AQP and stability quite a bit over a 6 month perceived head start. That's just my personal valuation though. YMMV. |
Originally Posted by dera
(Post 2783369)
It wasn't advice on how to get to a major. It was advice that things aren't as black and white as often they are presented here.
Flight time does count, but 1000TPIC is not a trigger when you suddenly start getting calls. His hours are rotary, and looking at the RTP guys I know, those hours aren't the same as FW hours when trying to get hired elsewhere. I would value AQP and stability quite a bit over a 6 month perceived head start. That's just my personal valuation though. YMMV. |
“1000 TPIC magic bullet”
This number comes directly from AA when they are asked to define a well-qualified street regional applicant at hiring events. It isn’t a magic bullet by any means, and they are still looking for important factors like personality, cognitive ability and particularly diversity from street hires. AQP is kinder, gentler airline training. It has a marginally better pass rate than traditional airline training and is much more forgiving - you can repeat maneuvers within certain parameters, for example - instead of getting slapped with a 5+ mark of shame and termination for messing up a steep turn. |
Originally Posted by AV8R72
(Post 2783364)
I’m not saying that at all. I’m asking questions simply because I do not know and want to make a good choice.
Here’s a little about me. I’ve got about 5k rotor hours, a masters degree, IP in 2 helps, and making the jump with 15 years in the army.
Originally Posted by NoValueAviator
(Post 2783444)
“1000 TPIC magic bullet”
This number comes directly from AA when they are asked to define a well-qualified street regional applicant at hiring events. It isn’t a magic bullet by any means, and they are still looking for important factors like personality, cognitive ability and particularly diversity from street hires. AQP is kinder, gentler airline training. It has a marginally better pass rate than traditional airline training and is much more forgiving - you can repeat maneuvers within certain parameters, for example - instead of getting slapped with a 5+ mark of shame and termination for messing up a steep turn. |
Originally Posted by pitchattitude
(Post 2783596)
I hope you are planning on staying with Guard/Reserve/IRR after you leave AD. Fifteen years is a lot to leave on the table for retirement that is more assured than anything else in this fickle industry.
1000 hours 121 PIC may define a “well qualified” street applicant, but how many of those do the regionals have? Plenty. The number that have Masters Degrees or even Bachelors is much less, but “well qualified” still isn’t necessarily where they are actually hiring. |
Originally Posted by pitchattitude
(Post 2783596)
I hope you are planning on staying with Guard/Reserve/IRR after you leave AD. Fifteen years is a lot to leave on the table for retirement that is more assured than anything else in this fickle industry.
1000 hours 121 PIC may define a “well qualified” street applicant, but how many of those do the regionals have? Plenty. The number that have Masters Degrees or even Bachelors is much less, but “well qualified” still isn’t necessarily where they are actually hiring. |
Originally Posted by havick206
(Post 2783666)
Pretty much the majority of non military street hires from Envoy to AA have been check airman
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Originally Posted by Cyio
(Post 2784111)
Recently spoke with a CA for us and apparently that avenue has been shut down. AA won't actively hire our CA outside of the flow anymore.
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Originally Posted by Cyio
(Post 2784111)
Recently spoke with a CA for us and apparently that avenue has been shut down. AA won't actively hire our CA outside of the flow anymore.
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Originally Posted by bigtime209
(Post 2784122)
I call BS on that. We've got a few guys going in for interviews soon.
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Originally Posted by Cyio
(Post 2784136)
Call it what you want, but this source would know and has no reason to make it up. Just passing on what I heard. By CA in this regard, I am referring to Check Airmen.
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Originally Posted by Cyio
(Post 2784111)
Recently spoke with a CA for us and apparently that avenue has been shut down. AA won't actively hire our CA outside of the flow anymore.
That’s contrary to the evidence. |
A lot of guys speculate about whether AA is more or less interested in people who work for the wholly-owneds in terms like "AA won't hire Envoy captains because they want to squeeze as many years of (practically) free flying out of them as possible!" That's probably what this is.
Historically, WO pilots selected outside of the flow at AA have gotten way more slots than the portion of the regional workforce we represent (54 pilots last year out of 397 street hires, 216 of which were .mil). |
Originally Posted by bh539
(Post 2784215)
Sounds like he didn't get a call back
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