Junior lineholders
 

This is for May, and includes CMP lines:

DFW 145 FO: 03/2018
DFW 175 FO: 01/2019
ORD 145 FO: 11/2018
ORD 175 FO: 09/2018
MIA 145 FO: 07/2018
LGA 145 FO: 03/2018

Doesn’t Envoy fly the CRJ in ORD as well? Got info on that?

10/2017. Dying fleet so anyone hired right now, the answer is: Never.

I'm honestly foncused about what drives this disparity. Just to make sure I understand, this implies that those 03/2018 folks have been on reserve up to this point? Why did Envoy overstaff the 145 to this degree? Was there some expectation of growth that did not materialize? (yet?)

It is a complex situation with many moving parts. The growth has been on the 175. So, those FO's tended to fly more and upgrade faster than on the 145. This causes vacancies and consistent upward movement and relatively short reserve times.

The 145 bases have seen a lot of expansion and contraction in their flying and staffing. LGA used to be the fastest place to get a line as everybody wanted to transfer out. Now those lines have shrunk and we have enough people who want NY.

There was a backlog of 145 FOs for a while, with >100 on the reserve list in ORD alone. It has taken the typical 145 FO over 2 years to get the time to upgrade. Longer if the wanted to transfer to DFW, shorter if they got lines elsewhere.

Envoy keeps big reserve lists and is overstaffed because they want to keep the training pipeline full. The steady flow of people out has caused local staffing disruptions (such as on the CRJ when half the CAs flowed to AA in a couple months, or the shortage of qualified CAs forcing Envoy to hire DECs) and Envoy is just trying to have warm bodies on hand to fill the jets. The pipeline is full of cadets and RTP pilots, so Envoy will keep putting them in class.

Envoy awards 175 and CRJ to fill operational needs then puts surplus FOs on the 145 instead of spreading them around. They may be doing this because they have a lot of extra training infrastructure for the 145 that they don’t want to go idle, or because they want to keep the 175 artificially junior so cadets report back to their CFI bros that life is good.

These may play a part but also that we are getting new planes almost monthly, so it is easy to go junior on a growing fleet.

Even before the all the fleet growth they kept reserve short for 175 FOs. For people hired early last year it was 2-3 months vs. 12-18.

Training and Reserve Timeline
 

I'm trying to make go/no-go decisions on who to interview with and I'm looking for some info on training dates and reserve. How quickly are guys getting training dates after hiring and what are reserve times looking like at junior bases?

If you get the 145 (you will) you'll be on reserve for 12-18 months.

Envoy is not the place to go right now.

Very quick class dates, 2-4 weeks after job offer.
Reserve right now is 2 months in DFW 175, and 6 months in ORD 145. These are moving targets so YMMV. The base/equipment assignment is russian roulette. You either get lucky, or you don't.

No its not.

You must be a recruiter.

And you must be stupid. Or just have hard time with facts.

11/5/2018 hire got BLK 237 for May. That's a CMP line. Hard line (blk 170) went to a 9/24/2018 hire.

September, October, November, December, January, February, March, April, May.

I count 9.

9/24. You count those 6 days as a whole month? I'd say that's 8. Or more like 7.
And you're counting May? He got a line FOR May.
When you were in school, did you ride a bus that was considerably shorter than the bus other kids rode?

Is it 12-18?
And CMP went 6 months. That's a line.

Junior lineholders
 

I think it’s 6 months after IOE isn’t it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No. Those numbers were from DOH.

Is a reserve line a line too?

Ok, if it makes you happy, let's call it 7 months for a hard line.

Trying to definitively state reserve times is like trying to nail jello to the ceiling.

There are so many moving parts to determine that bickering over 6-9 months is really pointless. Bases will gain lines and lose lines. All the forced upgrades will come from one base for a couple months causing that base to have rapid movement, while the rest stagnate. People will transfer from one base to another to chase a line. In six months, who knows, maybe everything will flip and suddenly MIA will have all the new FOs and the bottom ORD guy will be on reserve for 12 months.

The bottom line is that Envoy keeps about 350 reserve FOs in the system. Each month has about 50 new hires and 50 people leaving. So, you should probably expect 7 months of reserve. If it's less, consider yourself lucky. If it's more, consider yourself Envoy'd.

^^^^^ this is the most accurate description of how things are regarding reserve for new hire FO’s at Envoy.

Dera cherry picks the the best scenarios, others cherry pick the worst. The above statement is the accurate average.

Anyone know how long it would take to hold DFW on the 145 as an FO? It sounds like all new hires on the 145 as of now are starting out at ORD.

My scenario was accurate, not cherry picked, for May. No one knows what happens in June.
I'll update it when the bid awards come out.

Please don’t

Because the facts don't support your agenda?
Guys. If you stick to facts, people might actually believe you.
Now you are just a joke with all the BS.

I said nothing about facts, just don’t post a update

Why is that? I have a problem understanding this concept when its fine to spew BS about 18 month reserve times, but actual numbers are not ok.

Why do you care so much? Even if it was BS than it would benefit you to slow recruiting so that the company more likely to negotiate. Why keep trying to put the company in a positive light?

Not a positive light. Just neutral, and factual.
That way, you know, you actually have some credibility.

No one cares


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Finally a fact we can all agree on

Based on the number of PMs I get, we will just have to agree to disagree.

Hey Ric, can you give us any insight on LAX opening?

Someone in class said they heard someone who said Pedro say it was going to happen. Said an announcement would be made in June.

So almost as first hand as from the ramper that’s dating a flight attendant that has a brother who knows the guy hired as the new base CP.

Someone needs to ask RW or RN the next time they are at the training center. But just because one of them says something doesn’t mean it is so. Or didn’t or won’t change.

18 month reserve time is not BS. There are FOs at this company that have been on reserve for 18 months and counting.

From an outsider's point of view, you absolutely do not spin Envoy in a neutral light.

Dawg you have over 2,000 posts. You're on here all day every day arguing on the side of management. Either you're a very stupid line pilot lobbying against his own interests or you work in recruiting/management. Or is it your CFI bros make fun of you for choosing envoy over skywest?

Ok. Give me a seniority number of someone who after 18 months could not hold a line for May?
I bet you can't.
There's a difference between bidding RSV on purpose, and being on RSV because you're too junior.

That's because you believe the majority here are neutral.
Tell me where I posted BS to make the company seem better?

I think dera needs to convince himself and everyone else he made the right decision and wants as many people as possible to be hired in below him. Both reasons are self serving.

I don’t think he is a management shill, but since he has no soul, he wouldn’t be selling out if he went to recruitment or management and became one.