Envoy from ACMI
 

I’m at an ACMI with a 16/14 schedule and looking to move to something with a more livable schedule for a family. Out of all the AA wholly owned, it looks like Envoy has the best flow through. I have around 600 hrs 121 time and I’d like the Miami base if I come to Envoy. How long are reserve times from DOH for captains in Miami or Dallas? I like the idea of working for PSA, Piedmont or Envoy. I can live in Charlotte or Miami. Any recommendations based on historic and current conditions?


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Don't come here for flow. It will take a decade+, if it even exists at that point.

PDT has mostly 4 on 2 off type schedules. Sometimes you may work fewer than 4 or have more than 2 off but 4/2 is typically how the lines are built. Not great compared to our sister companies, or the entire industry for that matter. If QOL is the goal, I would pick PSA or ENY if you HAD to come to an AA WO... but if I were you I would probably be shooting for a Major. Spirit/JB/Frontier all hiring....

Yea aim for mainline, then JB, Spirit, etc.. If for some reason you're dead set on AA w/o then go to PSA for pay and qol. As stated on other threads, they have better rates and make out even better in other areas that have them crediting way more hours than a typical Envoy pilot. Don't come here for MIA either. It's fairly senior for the most part and not going to see any significant growth. You might get there but you'll be reserve on the 145 until you can find a better job.

You will play Russian roulette if you want to be based in Miami.

MIA is shrinking quite a bit. AA is giving Republic as much of our east coast flying as they can staff, leaving our bases super senior and very stagnant. I’d go to PSA in your shoes, or my shoes if I had a do-over.

It’s running about a year and a half to hold MIA in the left seat currently. It’s a fairly small and stagnant base for us, so chances are that’s not going to come down much.


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Don’t help the help, until they pay us. Shoot for the stars, go major.

#FUPM

The envoy projected flow is misleading. It's much closer to 10 years than 6.

Piedmont has the worst pay, schedules and QOL of any of the three AA Wholly Owned regionals. The five year flow on the company website is a blatant misestimation/lie. Expect a 9.5-10 year flow as a new hire. Line holding CA in CLT is taking about 3.5 years.

You’re best off going to PSA.

Have you considered PSA?

You'll make significangtly more, have better scheduling (look up their "SAP" or Schedule Adjustment Period), and can live in Charlotte. It'll take you a long time to get Miami as a captain...

You do realize that JB, Spirit , Frontier, etc are mainline carriers, right ?

No...no they’re not. To be a mainline carrier you require affiliated regional carriers. The above listed airlines are low cost carriers.

If you wanna talk Major airlines, all of those listed are “Majors”. That being said, Envoy also qualifies as a “Major” based on revenue....all the more reason Envoy pilots are way underpaid.

Trueeee...what about Alaska being qualified as a legacy...that’s hilarious

You require a regional affiliate in order to be considered a mainline carrier ? Lmao that might be one of the dumbest things I have ever seen posted on this website and that is saying alot . A "LCC" is just a classification of a major , same as "legacy" . Alaska airlines is classified as a legacy because they were around before deregulation. It's really as simple as that .

You’re clearly ignorant, look up the definition and get back to us there big guy.

But I'm not the one who is trying to make up my own definition of what I believe a major carrier is ... I would suggest you do the same .

Again, and I’ll type slooooow. Look up the definition of a ”Major Airline”. The DOT's Bureau of Transportation Statistics as well as 14 CFR 241, Section 4, "Air Carrier Groupings" both identify Majors as carriers having annual operating revenues exceeding $1,000,000,000. It’s a game of semantics clearly, but since you started it, I figured the facts should be used. Clearly this all started because you initially took offense to Spirit, Frontier, or whoever not being called “Mainline.” I’m done arguing with you, enjoy your time at Frontier or whatever LCC you work for.

Shouldn't Envoy be in the Majors forum? You guys are all AA pilots from the day you set foot on property at Envoy right?

Oh don’t get me wrong, Envoy is a regional. It’s a very sad, underpaid regional at that. That being said, this regional has revenues in excess of one Billion (that’s with a B) per year. That revenue is just another reason that this pilot group is underpaid. Should have known you’d come crawling out from underneath your LCC rock to say something.

I didn't take offense to anything lol . I was just stating a fact . So, after you pulled up the facts explain to me how the above mentioned airlines are not major airlines ? Oh wait , I forgot , because they don't have regional affiliates by giving up scope , duh I forgot lol

I'm not at Allegiant anymore. I got hired at Delta. Decided not to wait 9 years for that BS flow through and took some initiative. I would have been happy at AGT if I hadn't gotten the call from Delta. It's far, far superior to Envoy. Enjoy the toxic atmosphere there and your 9 to 10 year flow.

Prison is better than envoy

Stats please! Ty

I left for Allegiant a few years ago after being at Envoy only two years. When I initially posted that, I got serious blowback from all the recruiters that rotate through this site with multiple profiles. Looks like 29Eleven is another recruiter STILL trying to defend Envoy. I lived in South Florida and Envoy had conveniently closed my base. I networked, went to every job fair available, upped my volunteering at Habitat and just all out into get hired mode. Allegiant offered and I accepted. Luckily I got hired there when upgrades were running about 12 months. After moving to the left seat and less than 500 hours Bus PIC, Delta called. I interviewed and was offered the position. I know I got lucky with them but I was seriously OK with staying at Allegiant as a career living in base and doing day trips if need be. After upgrading, I continued to update my apps but wasn't aggressively pursuing anything. Bottom line. Forget the flow. Network, become a job fair regular and work every day to improve your resume. There are plenty of jobs out there and getting away from that poisonous AA/Envoy environment was the best thing that ever happened to me.

Bwahaha, gold star for effort there big guy. I loathe Envoy and the entire regional model as a whole...but thanks for playing random stranger on the internet who claims to work for Delta. Hang on, NASA is calling to hire me.

Really? :rolleyes:

Nope, it was a wrong number.

Yes I have. The flow seems to be longer than PDT or Envoy, hence my inquiry about Envoy. It sounds like PSA is treating their folks decently at the moment. I think I’ll head that direction if I don’t get a call from a major. My problem is that I won’t be finished with my bachelors degree until next year. I know that’s limiting my options at the moment. I got around 1000 hours of turbine PIC, an associates degree and volunteer experience but that doesn’t seem to go very far in terms of credibility. A bachelors degree and 121 PIC time is what I need, but I really just want that flow in my back pocket.


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Everyone likes the idea of the flow. You didn't magically discover it. At first, when you look at it, it looks magical. Then you see that it's tied to Envoy and think "it's ok; I can do that, how bad can it be?"

Then you start at Envoy and walk around in the mold infested hotel in useless Texas and say "WHAT THE *******??" Eventually you get out on the line after threatened to be fired by 5 different supervisors, probably bust a check ride or two and realize you're going to make $850 every two weeks into perpetuity because this airline pays min guarantee at minimum wage and that's it.

Then you understand why everyone doesn't come for the flow. It's like getting a cupcake after being thrown in prison. You have much bigger concerns to contend with.

He was fired from Envoy a couple of years back and has had an axe to grind ever since. If you look through his post history it’s nothing but posts in the Envoy sub forum. Very strange behavior from someone who was at Allegiant and now works at Delta. You’d think there’d be a post or two from either of those sub forums, but nothing. Hmmmmm.


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Flow in your back pocket/backup/whatever...

If AA stops hiring, flow stops too. If AA is hiring, so is everyone else.

Flow is a crutch.

Spirit/JB/Frontier/Allegiant all hire folks without a 4 year degree. If you have a small child maybe day trips with Allegiant would be your best option for right now, and keep trying for the big 6 while you complete your degree? Regardless, I would keep barking up that tree before heading back to a regional. I'm not involved in recruitment by any means, but I feel like if I was an HR recruiter seeing someone go from 747 FO with 1k TPIC back to a regional it would make me scratch my head a bit. Personally, I feel like that kind of career U-turn would pretty much limit you to only the flow since you yourself proved how much faith you had in it to begin with.

Just an opinion from a line pilot, so you probably shouldn't take any of that advice :)

Another data point to consider:

You start at a new carrier you are going to have to go through the whole training cycle and all that entails. Stress, possible failure and being out of productivity and likely away from home more during that time. Stay where you’re at you are three months closer to your end goal.

That’s a concern I have. I don’t want to make a U-turn that would kill potential in this career. I’ll take advice from a line pilot. It’s easy to make rash decisions that have a negative impact.


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So you left Envoy to go to Allegiant. Epic fail. Just as stupid as leaving Envoy for Jetblue, Spirit, et al. Why do you post here then? My guess is you are jealous of the flow thru if you indeed got fired. Good riddance.

That's one of the more dumb things I've read lately...

This reads like satire

Dude GTFO. If Spirit calls tomorrow, myself and plenty of other ladies and gents will politely (or not so much) step out this MF dumpster fire and not look back.

Makes me wonder sometimes...