No reason why PSA and PDT should get something we don’t imo, even if we’re all cocky flying aces who will never need our envoy jobs back.

Don’t know about PDT, but at PSA it’s for training only. Once you passed IOE you’re on your own. To my knowledge there is no one who has had to take advantage of this provision.

We have had guys fired during probation, and the company says they can be rehired at the bottom of the seniority list. To my knowledge no one has done that, either.


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Yow want to flow then flow we owe you nothing after you flow. You got your guaranteed job at aa, now blow. Oh by the way, envoy is not going to give you that flowback protection you seek, why, well increases flow time since you waisted a slot, increases reserve time since you came back and increases captain upgrade time all bad for recruiting. If you cant make it at american it really is to bad for you, but dont ask the others to suffer for your inability.

Seems harsh. I mean we are talking about less than 1% most likely that would need this protection but sure would be nice to have. What if you get over there and your spouse gets terminally ill or something while you are on probation?

The negative impact of this on the Envoy pilot group would be next to nothing but would be an nice backup for the unexpected. I would say there would have to be restrictions on it, like it cant be due to HR issues, personality conflicts etc.

My guess is that you're not flowing for whatever reason and perhaps resent those who do? Hopefully the rest of your group takes a more enlightened approach, no need in this day and age for folks to play Russian roulette with their personal financial security in order to make the final, logical career step... especially older folks with families.

But I agree don't give away unrestricted flow-back unless you got something really valuable in exchange. But training-failure return should be a given, some regionals have had that for many years.

If AA would terminate you for that, it definitely shows it is finally on an even playing field with Envoy. I guess it goes along with AA's plummeting product offerings and nasty customer service. They want to have a standard product across their regionals to match with mainline.

Best bet is to get hired elsewhere if at all possible, UA, DL, SW, etc.

Yeah you have issues. Me a mgt troll? Haha ok “buddy”. Im going to end my interactions with you on this topic as you have a clearly personal interest in this topic, most likely what the above poster said and won’t have a fair discussion on the validity of either side.

Yeah I agree, it was just something I was throwing out there, didn’t give it a whole lot of thought. I’m sure there are reasonable examples if one tried.

I know someone personally who got terminated by AA for that in training. Less than one year on the job = ineligible for FMLA.

I heard envoy pilots who fail training at AA get to flowback to Mesa

That right there would really motivate people to study hard!

So THATS how we are getting a west coast base, via outsourcing to Mesa!

Don't forget the AA DUI flow to Mesa, too. Whoever originally posted that one deserves a medal.

Edit: found it!
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/mesa-airlines/118814-rumor-mesa-buying-american.html

This forum needs a 'like' button. Great find.

HERE? I'm sorry, did I miss the announcement where they reversed your termination?

Old news. He is still a valuable source of info.

https://youtu.be/RUFT35S7Jb4

The reason I responded like that is because you may not know the door you will open. Last time we had flowback provision for furloughed pilots, they were only able flow back as many as had flowed, that was 125 pilots but the loop holes sent back 500 flow backs back as captains with seniority for pay.

To be honest what you ask does not effect me in any way but will be a detriment to junior pilots. There is no way you will have enough guarantees to protect envoy pilots from mgt abuse of what you ask for. It would be just another recruitment tool.

Honestly, what the other WO have are apples and oranges when talking about flow back provision. It’s not a flow back in the sense of what existed years ago. All it entails is that when a pilot flows, they are placed on a 90 day leave of absence from their carrier. That way if any issues pop up during training, they return from the leave and start working the old gig again. Beyond 90 days, they’re SOL.

Make it completion of IOE. If they get canned after that, probably their own damn fault.

Serious question, are we having issues with Envoy flows passing training/IOE at AA?

Now you will have the junior pilot argue that that pilot waisted a flow seat at aa and they were harmed buy increasing their flow time. How you get around that.

It's been extremely rare over the years, but it has happened.

They will have "waisted" that slot regardless and the jr guy would have been harmed "buy" that "waisted" slot whether or not the guy goes back to Envoy or ends up on the street.