It is.. you will get a “security restriction” message.

You give me the script and I'll run it for you.

If you have a concept that works, I can almost guarantee you will get deep DECS you need for *4.

Then someone should make a new one and the union should approve it. If this guy moved on and wants to keep it to himself for whatever reason than someone should submit it to the MEC


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The famous "someone".

Go for it. I just explained the method how to do it.

So far, no takers for the job.

An average programmer could probably do it in a few days. It's not a complicated job, it's just parsing data. My programming background is in embedded engineering so I can't help. Doing this in assembler would take years. You need someone fluent in perl or similar. Couple of regexps to parse the flow plans, and in perl it would be a bunch of foreach loops to process the resignations.

I'm sure they would appreciate a volunteer with the appropriate skills to do it.

Man....you're such a badass.

So what I’m reading is the information ISN’T readily available or accessible.

Depart Envoy Arrive American
 

Prolly someone on Java for Excel since Perl is more UNIX based but it sounds like you know what you’re doing? I sure as hell don’t when it comes to this list.

My point is, is that we should have a dedicated paid union representative to have an interactive list that is not only on excel but can be interactive on the web, kind of like the new contract wiki we have. You just plug in your ID like usual and the graphs and data populate through Safari or Excel if you want to remain old school.

No one is going to do that for free.


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Cliff notes: It would have to be pulled and compiled from multiple sources by a single person then sorted and arranged with programming. Also assuming it would have to be approved by Alpa prior to dissemination in order to be considered “real” and not fake news. Hell, this feels like UAW vs GM/Ford pre 1990.

The list that gets published is "fake news".
The sources are the flow plan, and access to deep DECS. You could do it without deep DECS if you'd get a list of people who retired/resigned/deceased. I think the chair of the Membership Committee would be a good place to ask if such list exists. He is a good dude. Call him and see what he says.

I don't think anyone would really miss the "Should I go" features. Just a list that's accurate and gets updated would make most people very happy. If you can create one and show your work, I can guarantee the union would help you support it.

The only official list is Appendix A of the CBA. It gets updated twice a year.

You've had a huge shift in the way you view your job. When you initially started posting here, you were extremely pro company and it has degraded ever since. I've noticed that you applied to Spirit in another thread. Looks like you've officially hit rock bottom in applying to a carrier that essentially is on par with Mesa. Dude, you have a job at American Airlines. What in the world HAPPENED to you?

Is this cr700 on an alt account? Every post you make causes me to believe it even more.

Hmmm cr is that you? Perhaps even management is aware it’s not a 5 year flow

I'm still happy here. I fly a lot, I make good money, and I live in base.
I have a job realistically, at AA, in 6 years. That is after most of the hiring wave has passed, so I would be stuck at the bottom for a long time. I'm not 22 years old. I have a time constraint that steers my decisions.
I'm nowhere near rock bottom.
Getting hired somewhere outside the flow has been my plan all along. Spirit would be a great place to hang my hat. DFW base, great QOL, and good pay. Comparing them to Mesa is a joke.

Spirit crews are great. Brand new airplanes, expansion, good routes, good pay, good schedules. Not a mesa type operation in the slightest.

:eek: did I just agree with dera?

and he’s still playing on variations of my screen name....

Very reasonable thinking.... unlike the Koolaid drinker.

Depart Envoy Arrive American
 

What do y’all think, is spirit a good option if you’re under 28-30?


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Yes. Good contract, very new fleet with I think 80 planes on order, decent bases and good pay. Company is fiscally responsible.

The two downsides in my opinion are it’s seems to be a pretty young pilot groups so fewer retirements and no long international. Those vary based on age and desires though.

I keep hearing the worst thing about working for Spirit is telling people you work for Spirit. Doesn't sound bad at all to me.

You'd make a ton of money, and you'd retire super senior. You wouldn't have to worry about flowing back to Envoy once AA runs out of money.

Yeah, it's only a ton of money, not a crap ton. Still sounds like a win to me.

I can almost guarantee anyone retiring with $4mil in the bank is not regretting the fact that he doesn't have $5mil.

Absolutely. Spirit is a good gig with some awesome QOL items going on for them. But make no mistake, there is big money to be made at AA. There are an insane amount of retirements on the horizon. And we have more than a few guys making over half a million a year. And we have plenty of guys making big money being home as much as possible. Either way, you can't go wrong. You want ultimate QOL, go to Spirit. You want less QOL and big money, go AA. Just depends on what you're after.

Disagree. AA's soft pay rules are probably the worst in the industry, worse than spirit. All open time at Spirit is 200%, pay protection, great rigs.

AA's old guard is so obsessed with pay rates the company hood winks them on soft pay and QOL.

All great points. Unfortunately for guys with 5 or more years to flow, you’re going to be 6,000+ seniority numbers junior to the 1,200+ new hires they’re projected to be bringing in each year. Given your relative seniority number and age, your odds of making the big widebody money diminishes significantly (if you’re old enough, you may never make widebody captain). That said, the LCCs are very likely to be as good or even better in terms of QOL.

You've got it partially right. There is big money to be made at AA. The whole argument about going to Spirit is absurd when you have the opportunity to fly for AA. Unless you don't have a degree, have checkride failures or skeletons in the closet. Those are 99% of your hires at Spirit and they wouldn't cut it at an Envoy interview.

That’s laughable considering the number of Envoy CAs that have told me they have an app in at Spirit

Is there any way that Spirit will still be in business in 7 years from now?

If you think so, then you really need to look at the history of this industry. Spirit is a fun place to hang out for a couple years, but there is absolutely zero chance that they will be in business 10 years from now.

I know of a LCA who went for an interview at Spirit recently and recently I mean in the past two weeks or so

It's more likely Spirit buys AA than Spirit goes out of business.

More likely buys aa assets while aag is in bankruptcy.
Only 2 airlines have made money every day since Sept 1st 2001, that's spirit and southwest.
Aa will be in bk court 2021 but no later than 2022,.
Just an opinion.

I hate to say it, but IF AA is indeed showing up Spirit, it is because AA is now chasing the same customers because the AA product has deteriorated.

You have jumped the shark. People don’t take you seriously because you are so far off base and transparent. Throwing out statements like above only makes it seem like you can’t be objective.

A CA with less than 2 years to flow just left his notice. He is going to Spirit.

It’s sad that he needs to create a new screen name to preach the same way he did on the other. The tone doesn't change.

Didn't you say before that being hired at Envoy was the same as being hired at American? How did that turn into "the opportunity to fly for AA"? Is it guaranteed or not?

Thanks for calling me out on this. I just worded it wrong. You are absolutely AA from Day One. And everything else I said still stands. You've got to have something wrong upstairs to work for a lowball type operator like Spirit when you are already AA.

It must be weird living in a world where it’s worth arguing about whether or not we work at AA when we’re still cashing baby sized checks and putting up with crappy work rules lol

You are absolutely DELUSIONAL if you think being hired at a wholly owned is “AA from day one.” Your medical needs to be pulled for psych reasons.

For the record, our work rules are actually better in some areas than AA (i.e if we are removed/ misconnected during sequence and resume mid sequence, than we just resume it and fly as usual. AA puts you on reserve if you misconnect)


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While I agree that there is work that needs to be done in the contract negotiations ongoing right now regarding soft pay and QOL (more so QOL), you have no idea what kind of income AA pilots are making. You can work the system and make money. We have narrowbody FOs with just a couple of years on property making over $200k or more. We have plenty of CAs making $3-400k+ a year. And the cream of the crop widebody CAs who really work it making well north of half a mil a year. Again, not taking anything away from Spirit. Great gig. Awesome QOL for those guys and still great pay. But there is a ton of money at AA to be had. But if you'd like to educate me on our contract further, by all means...