Envoy?
 

Need some insite on the interview for Envoy before applying:
1. Is the interview tough to pass or do they ask deep technical questions besides the tell me about a time Qs.
2. Should I be aiming for the 145 or 175 cause I heard they were phasing out the 145s.
3. The best drive to apply for Envoy is the pay but not much on the domicle side.
Thanks in advance

3. There are others that pay more or the same. Find one with a domicile you like.
2. Aim for 145, that's what you are most likely to end up on.
1. I don't know if they still send you a link to the Jepp 101 book with the invite, but if you know the jepp and actually been around flying for those past 1500 hrs it shouldn't be an issue. Look over the interview gouges on airline interviews for TMAAT type Qs

Interview isn’t tough, but they do ask tech questions. Aviation interviews.com

145s not going anywhere anytime soon.

Envoy pay isn’t a draw. Neither is the QOL. And if you don’t like the domiciles there are other options.

Would have to agree with all of this. If you like our bases than its an average place to be, however if you plan on commuting or there is a company with a base in your town, I would look there. Obviously this is assuming you dont "need" the flow for something or AA is a must.

The pay should not be a draw to come to Envoy.

Your pay is based off of two things... hourly rate and hours you credit multiplied together.

Envoy has a decent hourly rate, but the hours you can credit are horrible. There are several places to go where you can easily credit well above 100 hours per month. At Envoy, plan on the 72/(75 reserve) min month guarantee. You can scrap together some overtime to bump it up, but you'll probably end up losing some of it with our poor pay protections.

The bonuses are bigger other places, too.

How can you lose pay from OT?

Wrong

I credit over 100 hours every month with 14-15 days off. Ain't that difficult. It cost me $4,99 a month.

Do you live in base?
Do you have weekends off?
Are you in the 175?
14-15 days off including the OT you pick up?

Yes
Sometimes
Yes
Yes

It's possible, but only on 175 when you live in base.
It's hard not to break guarantee as a lineholder on 175. A ton of productive OT going around as well. Things are a bit less rosy on the 145 side.

You will see a bunch of differing opinions. Some people have it easy (usually 175 FOs in DFW because that was the growing fleet until recently). Everyone else, not so much.

It really is the tale of two airlines.

175s have better schedules than their 145 counterparts. They typically fly the longer legs, so they are a bit more productive.

The big picture, Envoy has 1 reserve pilot for every 2 line holders. You will more than likely spend a lot of time on reserve, and when you become a lineholder, you will probably have to endure some unproductive lines for a while.

There is not a lot of OT to be picked up. On the 145, you see a lot of opportunities for overnights worth 2 hours with a 20 hour sit. That's great if you are single, homeless, and just like to hang out in a hotel. Not much money there.

You can lose the OT if you end up dropping a day for a scheduling conflict or missing a commute. You can lose the pay overage of an overblock if you get a reassignment. The pay protections here are really bad.

Anyone who tells you that Envoy is great, probably lives in base, flies the 175, and bids top 50% in their lines. Take their advice with a grain of salt, there is little to suggest that any new hires will have the same fortunate circumstances they had.

I do think that you're being a bit harsh as well. As a new hire, you'll probably end up sitting reserve no more than 6 months (again depends what base/what plane). The biggest attraction to Envoy (aside from Flow) is the movement in seniority....well because of the flow. I know guys at Endeavor/Republic who've left for other companies because an upgrade is out of sight due to the stagnation there. At Envoy you'll at least be able to upgrade once you hit your 950 hours.

But to answer to the OP
1) Nothing is tough if you study
2) Plan on the 145
3) Pay could be worse

To me it sounds like you don't really understand our pay protections.
FYI, they are actually one of the few points in our contract that are close to industry leading.

Now that is completely laughable. Our pay protections are horrible. If you think our pay protections are industry leading, you need to talk to some people at other airlines.

I'm glad I made you laugh.

I have. And ours are pretty darn good.

OT always going over your monthly guarantee. Opportunity to get OT premium for cancelled/lost OT. Paid TL. Paid bereavement. SK makeup for paid absences and DTS. IOE displacements with pay protections and no way to make you sit reserve.

OT can and is still be offset by deductions. There are even cute little examples shown in section 3.

Pay protections are pay protections... not "opportunities" to make it up, or offset it from your sick bank.

You said before that we had a min day pay, and you were wrong about that. I hope you've learned since then. There is no min day pay at Envoy. If so, we wouldn't have so many lost days on our schedules.

Not sure you are reading it correctly. Let me ask you this. What airline pays for those deductions?

And yes, we do have min day pay. Just got to read the contract on when it applies. That is part of our contract that does suck.

We have min day, except for when we don't. Which is all the time, and not when it matters. Our contract is the longest in the industry, with a bunch of company friendly carve outs.

Here's how a min day works on the line.
Envoy Day 1- 3 hours, Day 2 - 5 hours, Day 3 - 3 hours, Day 4 - 4 hours. Trip total - 15.
Other Airlines with a 4 hour min day... You start at 17.

At Envoy, Day 2, you overblocked to 6 hours, but Day 4, you got reassigned to 2 hours. You get paid, 15 hours.
At other airlines. You now get paid 18 hours.

It's all these little differences that guys/girls like you don't realize are hurting you in the paycheck.

You get rigs and min day mixed up.
I just agreed, this part of our contract sucks.

Anyway, how is this relevant to losing OT pay?
Again - who pays for those deductions?
Also, don't say "other airlines". There aren't many who don't use cancellation guarantee.

From my understanding, Skywest, Republic, Endeavor, Expressjet, TSA, GoJet, and Compass to name a few. Some I know for certain, others, I'm pretty sure, but could be wrong about a detail here or there.

Most other places, you are usually well above monthly min guarantee that it isn't even a consideration.

Most regionals don't have rigs. Those are different. https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/...-rigs-101.html

I'm talking about a min day. On reserve, each day should be 3.9. If I fly more than that, I get paid more than that. If I fly 70 hours over the course of 14 days, and don't get called off RAP the other 5, I get paid 75 hours. Same scenario at Skywest, I get paid 90.

You're saying that those airlines pay you for dropped trips?
Or if you trade into lower value trips?
Or MA's?
Or sick calls if you have no accrued sick time?
Or if you cancel a flight because of a deferrable MEL item?

Quick fact: No, they don't.

Those are caused by the pilot.

If you are removed from a flight because you have a 7 day conflict, or you are approaching a flying hour lookback limit, you still get paid at those other places. If you are removed from a flight because scheduling opted to use a reserve so that the flight wasn't delayed, you still get paid for that flight for it's full value, regardless of what happened with the rest of the sequence.

It's a huge difference.

Seconding this. At 9E, if we get cancelled or reassigned, we get the greater value of the original assignment or the actual flown assignment.

Cancelled, and 12 hours of credit becomes an unscheduled overnight and a 2 hour deadhead? We get paid for 12 hours. Assigned to cover someone else's flying, and 12 hours becomes 15 hours? We get paid for 15 hours.

You have to be either a very senior FO who is about to get displaced to the 145 or possibly ORD reserve in the 175, in which case your days off will be reduced to 11 and min credit of 75 AND you’ll be commuting

Or a very senior captain possibly lifer, either way a new hire will not see something like this, specially if they get the 145.

Do you understand why I gave those specific examples?
Let's go back to what you said.

I'll give you a hint. Those are the only reasons when OT does not go over your monthly guarantee. So it's never "offset by deductions" unless it's caused by the pilot.

A very senior FO would not get displaced to the 145. The very senior FOs have been displacing to the 175, causing all sorts of havoc at the bottom of the 175 CA list.

Yes youre right about that, either way you’d go back to reserve for a while. 11 days off min credit. Or less than 11 days off if u pick up OT

Yes, because you read the wrong part of the contract and don't know what you are talking about. There are 660 pages of company friendly caveats...

I'll give you a hint. Continue reading to the part that says, "If a reserve pilot flies awarded open time on days off and subsequently has a 30-in-7 day conflict in the same calendar month, the amount of flying from which it was necessary to remove the reserve pilot in order to resolve the 30-in-7 day conflict may not be credited above guarantee."

You can lose OT pay if it carries over into the next month and touches a reserve day on your next month's bid and gets recoded as voluntary reserve flying (flying fly free).

I don't think you understand what that part means. If you read it, slowly, you might figure it out.
Think how OT is awarded for reserves, and what restrictions they have. How do you think this situation would occur? Pay close attention to the "same calendar month" part. It's pretty important.

That's what RF 100 TRAN is for.
You CAN lose it, but you don't have to.

Wait... earlier you said that I can't lose OT. Now I have to read slowly for some reason? Oh yeah, because you were wrong. I know exactly what it means because I live it. You haven't had to endure the Envoy reserve system, you have no idea what happens. It only applies to a third of the pilots on the line, but you're not one of them.

How does this situation occur? Hmmm... Well, let's say that I pick up OT on the 10th... a nice 4.5 hours of credit for a 3 hour turn. This months schedule ends 5 on, 2 off, 3 on. On the 20th, the next month schedule gets awarded. It starts 4 on 2 off 5 on....

So, if I combine those together I get 5 on, 2 off, 7 on, 2 off, 5 on. Oops, there's a 7 day... need to split that up. Can I request a specific day off? Nope. Can I swap days to resolve this issue? Nope, denied due to staffing.

I can opt to let scheduling adjust my schedule at their discretion (yikes), but sliding a day changes it to 5 on, 1 off, 3 on, 1 off, 4 on, 2 off, 5 on. Ouch. Or 5 on, 2 off, 3 on, 1 off, 4 on, 1 off, 5 on. Not better.

Or, I can let them drop a day, giving me 5 on, 2 off, 2 on, 1 off, 4 on, 2 off 5 on. This costs me 3.9 hours of my 4.5 hours of overtime... meaning I worked on a day off for .6 hours of pay. Cha-ching.

BECAUSE IT IS NOT PAY PROTECTED!!!!!

How often is there a 7 day conflict between reserve lines?... just about every single month.

Is this industry leading pay protection? Absolutely not.

30 in 7 =/= 7 day conflict.

Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

So you just said you are pay protected, but might not like the schedule?

Yes you lose the pay... You can keep the flying if you want it but don't get paid for it besides guarantee, or you can keep the reserve day and drop the flying, also unpaid.

No. Being "given the opportunity" to work a different day and crappier schedule is not a pay protection. Pay protection is, you lost pay, through no fault of your own, but you get paid anyway.

It is frightening how much you don't know and what you think is acceptable in this industry.

Like where
 

the only 145 operators with 50/hour are PDT and ENV, who else?
another thing is their base close to CMH is ORD, PDT have PHL which is close to CMH but don't know if there are daily flights to commute.

Ok the only 145 operators with 50/hour are PDT and ENV, who else?
To compare Envoy vs Peidmont is their base close to CMH is ORD, PDT have PHL which is close to CMH but don't know if there are daily flights to CMH to commute.
The reserve in ORD should be around 3 months but don't know Peidmont Philli reserve time to compare.

If you're comparing Envoy vs Piedmont, Envoy is just a much bigger company which in turn equates to more resources, generally more growth, more opportunity, more flow, I will say there was a small group of PDT pilots who got in at the right time and spent under 5 years at PDT before they flowed, but as for a NH I think Envoy would make more sense. I know of a handful of CMH commuters and CMH to ORD is done on Envoy metal so you'd have priority on the JS for that.

Thank you
 

so if CMH was home wouldn't ENV be better commuting from ORD vs PDT commuting from PHL as for pay both are the same but reserve time is what differs