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speedbrakearmed 01-28-2020 03:28 PM


Originally Posted by Lee 64 (Post 2966115)
I believe the massive attention to ULCC has gotten everyone’s attention. The pilot group should be in a strong position this fall if we don’t give away the upper hand

The best way to give up the upper hand is by discussing specific negotiations on any forum online including facebook. Nothing wrong with griping, but the issue starts when people start throwing out I want "xxx" and "xxx" as now the company knows exactly what we want and will use 1/4 of that as a starting point. All for complaining, but no specifics please!

havick206 01-28-2020 03:57 PM


Originally Posted by speedbrakearmed (Post 2966248)
The best way to give up the upper hand is by discussing specific negotiations on any forum online including facebook. Nothing wrong with griping, but the issue starts when people start throwing out I want "xxx" and "xxx" as now the company knows exactly what we want and will use 1/4 of that as a starting point. All for complaining, but no specifics please!

The other bargaining chip is loading up the company with valid grievances. A lot of times it does force some change.

speedbrakearmed 01-28-2020 04:09 PM


Originally Posted by havick206 (Post 2966276)
The other bargaining chip is loading up the company with valid grievances. A lot of times it does force some change.

^^^this. A lot of people hesitate or don't believe in the grievance process because we live in the era of instant gratification. Yes grievances aren't rectified immediately, but neither was Rome. They work and are one of the best negotiating tools we have. You've probably heard it hundreds of times, but if you have a specific comment, concern, question, request, please let your reps know, they are listening and are trying to vote on your behalf the best they can even if it doesn't seem like it. Only a united union can instigate change, remember that.

dera 01-28-2020 05:57 PM


Originally Posted by FlyGuy2112 (Post 2966225)
is the attrition really that high right now? Where are the actual numbers?

It is pretty high. CA rsv lists have 6 RE's, only one of them is a flow. Rest are AA outside the flow, UPS and ULCC's. A few more have class dates, just haven't sent their notices yet. And this is just reserve captains. Add the lineholders, and FO's (bunch of them are getting hired at Spirit/Frontier/jBlue).

speedbrakearmed 01-28-2020 06:11 PM


Originally Posted by dera (Post 2966358)
It is pretty high. CA rsv lists have 6 RE's, only one of them is a flow. Rest are AA outside the flow, UPS and ULCC's. A few more have class dates, just haven't sent their notices yet. And this is just reserve captains. Add the lineholders, and FO's (bunch of them are getting hired at Spirit/Frontier/jBlue).

What seniority are we talking though? I saw a lot of those RSV CA's but it doesn't help people who are 1500 or better.

dera 01-28-2020 06:30 PM


Originally Posted by speedbrakearmed (Post 2966367)
What seniority are we talking though? I saw a lot of those RSV CA's but it doesn't help people who are 1500 or better.

600-1700 is the range, roughly.
There's a bunch in the sub-1000 category too, but they won't show on the reserve list.

HalyardJammer 01-28-2020 11:31 PM


Originally Posted by speedbrakearmed (Post 2966283)
^^^this. A lot of people hesitate or don't believe in the grievance process because we live in the era of instant gratification. Yes grievances aren't rectified immediately, but neither was Rome. They work and are one of the best negotiating tools we have. You've probably heard it hundreds of times, but if you have a specific comment, concern, question, request, please let your reps know, they are listening and are trying to vote on your behalf the best they can even if it doesn't seem like it. Only a united union can instigate change, remember that.

I've got to imagine there's some truth to this. Didn't we give up get something a couple agreements back in exchange for giving up a grievance that was going to cost them?

UnprotectdPilot 01-29-2020 03:38 AM

I know captains here that have offers at Delta, United, Southwest, Spirit, and FedEx that have class dates in February and March and they're waiting to put in their resignations right before their class dates, so there's more coming.

Lee 64 01-29-2020 09:57 AM


Originally Posted by HalyardJammer (Post 2966452)
I've got to imagine there's some truth to this. Didn't we give up get something a couple agreements back in exchange for giving up a grievance that was going to cost them?

the one grievance I wanted to file bc the company was blatantly violating the contact the union said “no we agree with the company””, but yes the contract does say that”

highfarfast 01-29-2020 05:20 PM


Originally Posted by Lee 64 (Post 2966840)
the one grievance I wanted to file bc the company was blatantly violating the contact the union said “no we agree with the company””, but yes the contract does say that”

I had something very similar happen once. Very frusterating.


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