You are totally correct.

Yeah, they can furlough in reverse seniority order or I'll wait until they're grossly overstaffed and drop stuff. Either way it's going to cost them a LOT more than a serious VLOA offer.

No offer yet at PSA... Not even a joke one like you guys saw.

But I hope my coworkers understand how cheap we are at 50 or 55 hours compared to the offers written for senior mainline pilots...

I dont know what the next guys life is like but anyone taking this BS voluntary leave is pretty stupid. Oh and it can be extended with concurrence with pilot and company. But I wouldnt be surprised if they force an extension on you.

While I agree the company’s offer is BS, and I hope no one needs to take a leave under those conditions, calling someone who takes it stupid is being disingenuous. Like you said, you don’t know. Different people have different life situations.

We won’t know until tomorrow. It’s not an offer but letting us rebid and giving us another SAP period plus 2 paid personal days we can use as needed I think is a fair start. We need to help our companies out anyway we can. Life isn’t always fair and in this industry never predictable. We can talk shop and contracts after we get our companies out of deep water. IMO. Fly safe and stay home if you’re sick.


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You know I would be all for that except it is never reciprocated by the company when times are great. The only time we get anything is at the benefit of them disguised as some good will measure.

The company had their chance.

Dougie shouldn’t have blown $12 bi in stocks

The guy is a moron in my opinion, so dont think I am defending any of his actions, however I will say there wasn't a way anyone could have predicted this. Of course if he thought there would be a world wide lockdown on virtually all airline travel for an undisclosed amount of time, he probably would have held onto the cash. I hope.........

I understand but this is about having a job until we can get back to saying the typical “screw them” mentality shared on these Internet forums. I say “we” because I guess guilty by association. If you have some other company to go to don’t forget about the rest of us when you get there.


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I am all for helping the company out, I get it, they pay us. However, any deal would need to require firm, unflinching guarantees that cant be revoked to improve our current status once the airline gets back on their feet. No sense giving everything to them and sacrificing on our end only to end up at the exact spot we are at now. We should be rewarded for going above and beyond.

The thing here though is that even in a situation as bad as this Envoy has no interest in caring for its employees. All we get are regurgitated government guidance and an offer to take off work and pay up to keep insurance. Excuse me but are you ********** KIDDING ME? You could be missing two fingers and still count on one hand the people at the top that are responsible for continuing this "us vs them". Until they are gone, things will never change. It will always be this way. You could show them all the good faith in the world from this pilot group and they would still ******* in our hands and expect to be thanked.

What’s the difference with offering this unpaid leave of absence and simply offering 0 time lines, an option already in the contract?

Timing. Cant offer 0 time lines when the package is already published.

if they run the bid for both CA and FOs with same lines I’m sure they have a greater need for captains more than FO’s, so that prob doesn't work for them. Not sure how it really works tho, maybe they do have a way to awarding less 0 time lines to CA’s than FO’s

Don’t forget you’re still under the contract that includes concessions from the previous AAG bankruptcy. Think about that before you give up the farm.

You mean concessions that Parker made us eat AFTER the concessions we took in bankruptcy (AMR not AAG).It was so important to them that we match the cost structure of Pinnacle (Endeavor), until they got a raise. Then, suddenly, it wasn’t that important anymore. There are quite a few managers at the top that need to take a haircut before they come asking us for money. If pilot costs at ENY are what tip AAG into bankruptcy, then there was no avoiding it to begin with.

The leave of absence they are offering is already in the contract as well.

Agreed! They better not come asking for concessions. But again let’s not negotiate here

There are other things that would tip AA into bankruptcy first.

https://i.imgflip.com/3tjm4h.jpg

So you think AA is destined for bankruptcy


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Not necessarily. If they are, though, then it sure as heck ain't Envoy's fault.

Loooks like DAL has the most cash. Could you imagine if delta bought them out. Holy smokes


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That was free cash flow over the last decade. I think AA actually has the most cash right now. They also have the most debt to pay off with it as well.

No one has any cash flow right now.

Negative cash flow is still cash flow.

Much like a nightmare is still a dream.

Probably ..They can cancel they’re contract with Boeing and put that whole 737 MAX issue behind them ..Boeing will file BK too..

At this point, Boeing is probably going to have to file for bankruptcy one way or the other.