Which is easier when you're the lowest paid wholly owned, and almost the lowest paid regional, that had the lowest furlough needs.

Agreed. This is a slippery slope.

Delete this thread you idiot. You're talking to people like they're new to the industry but don't even know the history of work actions. Can't believe someone is this dumb, probably management made the thread.

I think the paranoia about a company lawsuit is WAY overblown. The union has explicitly said they don’t endorse anything that could even be misconstrued as a work action. They have said that in every comm, both public and private. Not to mention, OT IS being picked up.
What, exactly, is the company going to say to the judge? “Some dude on the Internet said something, but it didn’t happen, so... They’re guilty?”

Woah, wait. You guys seriously have union members picking up open time while there are furloughed pilots on your seniority list?

Wow, no words.

Yeah we should just take straight up concessions like you did at mesa. Or maybe carry the pax bags and clean airplanes to save the company money

Should we also refuse to bid for lines of flying that were flown the previous month by a now defunct airline as well? GMAFB

False equivalency at its finest. Hopefully your union “brothers and sisters” remember your attitude during this time when they share a cockpit with you again.

go read Toms email. Then you’ll understand who is at fault for furloughs.

I’m not with you guys. I’m just someone who believes in protecting every single union job in this industry as much as possible. What was in it?

He cant. He works for Mesa, not Envoy.

We furloughed because of a once in a 100 year event of a virus running around the globe. Not because we have/had people picking up open time. You think that uncovered TOL turn going to a reserve pilot (for “free” by the way)
is going to bring folks back? If you aren’t continuing to shore up your personal balance sheet by continuing or increasing your savings during the this time, let this be a wake up call. If/when you get furloughed and you don’t have enough in savings to support your family, I guarantee you your significant other and kids won’t give 2 ***** you died on the hill for some furloughed envoy cadet kid.

Thats explains a lot. You working for Mesa which has been undercutting literally every airline for decades has done way more damage than anyone picking up OT.

Idk why y’all are bashing our union members. They also need to pay their bills etc. We have furloughed pilots because management doesn’t want to negotiate with us, they want straight concessions. Our MEC is doing a pretty good job!

Disclosure: I’m not in the union.

Well said. This isnt like we have people crossing the picket line. If our pilots didn't pick up the open time, it would simply fall to one of the 74 reserve captains/fo's in ORD, of which the company would get out of paying for since they already are on the hook for min guarantee. If it is out there I would much prefer a line pilot getting the money.
Agreed, the union is doing about as good as they can given their counterparts across the table.

Shock, horror. We will have the same thing happening when we furlough in January.

And I will 100% call them out on it to if it happens. It shouldn’t happen anywhere, end of story.

BINGO! This can’t be reiterated enough. These furloughs are not, nor will they ever be a fellow pilots fault. It has been clear from the start of all this that the company, and only the company are to blame.

It's different when you earn a living wage at min guarantee. We don't here.

I wouldn't judge anyone for scooping OT.

Not sure you can blame them either. Only 35% of the people are flying that flew last year. I would expect nothing less than furloughs. Companies cannot survive without revenue and their job is not to provide jobs with no demand.

Considering that our mgt has been targeting OT premium for “cost savings” since April (including their latest gem of “give up all OT and we’ll consider not furloughing a couple guys”), maybe you can appreciate status quo pickups. That’s solidarity. Also, as another guy points out, aggressively adding to savings while the economy implodes is smart for any pilot.

You go worry about JO at Mesa, and we’ll worry about our shop.

Fair. Referring more to the company’s stance of refusing to take furlough mitigation seriously. But you’re right without things changing soon (bailout or increased flying, both seem unlikely after POTUS’ tweet) our 227 are unfortunately going to have company before too long.

That's not true. Might be at Mesa with your OT rules, but not at Envoy.

Envoy has by far the best OT rules of any regional, perhaps any airline. Every single thing you pick up is added on top of your guarantee at premium. Crew scheduling can not hide trips or withhold them for reserves, and we can take flying from reserve assignments and get paid premium for them.
This has a reverse effect on how you think OT effects staffing. We are effectively flying at 150%, whereas if the company was adequately staffed, they would not be paying the premium to fly these trips.
So, the more our pilots pick up, the more it incentivizes the company to bring back pilots so there would not be so much open time left.
OT pickups cost the company more than bringing back the furloughed pilots.

A blanket "never pick up OT when pilots have been furloughed" might not always apply.

This is a fake post trying to compromise ENY
 

1) The effort of trying to take away letter 13 that provides the OT rules now has forever been a subject of debate.

2) this post appears to be another effort trying to make the pilot group pit against each other trying to compromise the very root of ENY.

3) ENY Pilots are least paid compared to their other wholly owned counterparts

4) Furloughs and Letter 13 have no relation to each other, you can not avois furloughs by taking 13 away, you might make a difference of 30 pilots in total with degrading the QOL of the remaining 2200.

5) Furloughs can be mitigated by making sure the top guy on the 777 with his 3 wives and 2 boats and 6houses taking a paycut not the bottom guy at ENY trying to feed his 2 kids a now jobless spouse and paying daycare/mortgage/education loans.

please tell your friend the ENY pilot group stands united.
we never came for other peoples jobs when we got the short end of the stick and were understaffed which is how letter 13 came into existence and we are not coming after anyone now so please stop coming after us if that really is the case.
All we want is trying to preserve is what we have.

^^^^ This guy gets it. At least someone is making the OT pay rather than it falling to someone who would have flown it on reserve anyway.

It’s not like Envoy furloughed to the point where they are running out of reserve pilots for trips/turns.

All valid points!

For those at envoy calling for not picking up OT, educate yourselves on the contract, and the history there during uncertain times of the past (ie. 9/11, and multiple trips down bankruptcy lane). You’re making yourselves look awfully foolish without knowing all the facts and taking them into consideration.
As for the PDT guy on here claiming that they “mitigated” furloughs at their shop, GMAFB.
Your shop was understaffed and is now adequately staffed. From what I’ve seen, appears y’all got played. I said “appears”. Just my opinion from the facts I’ve been able to harvest.
For the Mesa moron chiming in....
Well he’s at Mesa

most got bonus, retention and 40% pay raise while the rest go nothing equivalent. I do remember.

also the previous owner AMR took apa to court and won I believe 25 million in damages the union was on the hook for, for sick out. Just a little history for the novices.

All this quibbling for scraps won’t matter in 3-6 months when AAG sells off all the regional assets and files chapter 7. Then you can all stab each other in the backs for your old block / OT hours again at a newly formed regional conglomerate. See y’all back in community college at the delta house.

It's funny you're worried about an airline that has taken 0 concessions since covid started picking up OT while your own airline is on their second round of concessions and is discussing doing ramp duties to help management.

Wait, you actually think they are being serious when saying that? LMFAO. I get that sarcasm doesn't come across well on the internet, but for your own sake rub them brain cells together from time to time.

At $36/hr and reduced guarantee I think the rampers probably make more.

Lol, they probably do. I sure as heck wouldn't come here for the money alone. And I didn't, I came for QOL. But then again YV's and yall's payrates where pretty close to the same when I chose YV over MQ until you got your new contract. Just YV, at the time, had the better QOL for me. Have to see what the future holds though, I can't control it.

Band of Brothers... rent it sometime.

ENY did take concessions, the concessions were so big that they are whats carrying them through these times, just have to look back a few years.

Any aviator in their right mind would not want the ENY pilot group to take any more concessions.

1)
Ask yourself this, if you are an ENY Pilot would you want to give up anything more than what you already have ?
2)
Do you think any ENY pilot genuinely concerned about your well being would make this thread ?

After all this turns around in 4 months whatever you do decide to give up, will you get it back ?
The furloughs might be back before you know it, the part of contract you give up might not.

OT vs OT
 

Also to all the nay sayers in here :
Its Open Time not Over Time.

The pilots that do pick up OT arent picking up OverTime they are picking up Open Time.

They arent trying to hurt another pilot just help themselves.

LGA - 0 Open Time this month
MIA - 110 hrs Open Time

Consider all the FOs picking up Open Time at 55$/ hour amounting a total of 9075$, think that drop in the ocean will make a difference in a multi billion dollar industry in the middle of a global pandemic ?
Its a drop for the industry but might help that FO not default on his education loan.

Someone post “BlueFalcon‘s” name and shut this down. Unless your management started this thread (which wouldn’t surprise me based on y’alls posts.

I thought about going to envoy not too long ago and glad I didn't. Good riddance.

Lookin at your page and reading this nonsense is embarrassing for all involved.

Don’t be the guys who put yourselves on the street.

Just 2 cents from a now cargo guy.

Based on what y'all are saying. I made the right choice.

Eh, this thread isn’t too different from all the other Envoy threads over the years. Envoy guys that are ****ed, Envoy guys that aren’t ****ed, some advice from a union perspective, some guys saying screw the union, some guys commenting from other regionals, some guys commenting from who knows what kind of outfit, and every single one thinks they’re the one with the crystal ball.

Eh, kind of sums up pilots in general to be honest lol. I could go through just about every airline forum on here and find exactly what you just described. I actually didn't find this thread all that bad really. There are two camps, those that think picking up open time while people are furloughed is horrid and those that dont, most likely because they understand the contract. Add in a dash of razzle dazzle from some outside influences and here we sit.

Thanks we were all waiting and worried about your career choices. I'll sleep a lot better now.