So using alcohol wipes or sani-com wipes to clean the EFB mount, melting the material and requiring the 20k - 40k window to be replaced and now multiple times is way more expensive than the cost savings of not picking up OT. Drop in bucket so think big picture here.

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careful...........

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What I am getting at here is the day to day costs of the operation far out weigh what money would be saved by by not picking up OT. There are so many pieces to this vastly complex puzzle.

Not picking up OT is not going to bring pilots back, its just going to force junior pilots to be forced into a junior man on their day off. They will still be paid a premium for the junior man but their QOL will take a big hit.

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I don’t know everyone’s situation but given how hard you hammered LB (rightly so..... that guy is a royal POS)... I’m surprised at this stance on the matter.

Some say picking up OT won’t amount to a hill of beans.
But this is our hill. And these are our beans.

If there's $10,000 of open time and no one picks it up, reserves on our overstaffed lists will fly it and the company spends $0 extra. Can someone do the math and explain how that brings furloughs back?

It would be different if we were understaffed. We aren't.

explain how not picking up ot will help anyone.
also precedent has been set on american property the corporation will sue the union if the pilots take your position. It cost apa 25 million dollars.

Actually I’m with you. I just felt it necessary to bring a Naked Gun quote into this thread.

The same thing happened at Piedmont.

There was a ton of open time, a few people abusing the system so they removed open time and assigned all the open flying to reserves.

Not possible here with our contract

I counted about 35 in one status or another going from 175 to 145, how much is that training going to cost? The company wouldn’t allow any 175 pilots to take the Long Term Leave of Absence.

The company is wasting money on this and the cadet program. It is not understaffed, just ineptly staffed. As other said, NOT picking up OT will only hurt QOL of those losing the pay. Let the company pay the premium instead of having reserve pilots already being paid fly it.

It's in our contract too- a certain percent of flying will be in open time.

I think he’s saying they can’t withhold OT, per LOA 13-13. At least that’s the way I took it in reply to a post about Peidmont withholding OT.

That's correct mgt cannot hide ot

Overstaffed lists?

Look up the FO lists. They have been 0d with junior mans for the past few days now. November will be even worse.
CA on CA flying in ORD a few weeks ago.

OT flying costs them more than bringing pilots back.

I know you have much more visibility on this stuff than most of us, but won’t their staffing issues work out once they get everyone in position after the displacements? Between moving LGA pilots out and working through the downgrades, I’d think they have a large number of FOs in the pipeline for both DFW and ORD.

Side note: I tried to come up with a good “CA on CA” joke, but nothing seemed worthy of publication.

There are 90 captains available on rsv in Chicago some days. There is no staffing problem.

How does an ORD CA help when they need an FO in DFW within 2 hours? They were flying CA on CA few weeks ago when they had 0 FOs and 21 CAs.
Its not a staffing problem, its a staff allocation problem. And as of now, they have wrong amount of people in wrong places. TDY is expensive, pilots picking up OT is even more expensive. Recalling furloughed pilots is the cheapest way to fix it. Company just does not understand what their employees cost them.

Very likely. We will be a smaller airline. Not picking up OT does not help anyone on furlough. Their pipeline of FOs are now the CAs getting downgraded. They chose not to be able to respond to market demand when flying picks back up, by refusing the union LOA as described in Tom's email.
So we will shrink. Republic will be the winner in this game, they have the staffing to pick up flying when things start to get back to normal.

they do they just want more stimulus money and they cant get without throwing their own pilots under the bus to show for it. Remember they will cut off the nose to spite the face all day erry day

I was also surprised! I’m tired of having my username associated to too many whistleblower accounts banned 😬

How many are y’all downgrading?

110 so far. 160 expected.

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Oops Wrong thread ...

Another 160 or 160 in total?

160 in total.

Because there are those among you who already know they have their very own space reserved to be my guest. False justifications only work for the living. Their time will come.

Clown ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎

The more OT our pilots pick up, the faster they start recalling pilots. Go away troll.

I guess the mods are on vacation, or you have an in with them since more than one person has been banned for positing that Richard Cranium’s initials

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Edited for clarity..

“Flying The Line” use to be required reading. But, a podcast with a few chapters are available online if anyone is still interested in history, common sense, and INTEGRITY.



Edited to add....

Like others have said, picking up OT with brothers & sisters on furlough is never a good look for any work group/pilot group, Union or Association, no matter the excuses. Then again, the Voy is no longer “Eagle Proud.”

This applies, when the OT is not at premium. Flying open trips at 100% is not kosher, but at premium, it hurts the company.
At Envoy, OT pickups costs more than what staffing the airline appropriately would. The old etiquette does not apply at MQ.
That is why the company wanted to remove our OT LOA.

Wasn't it flight cancellations that got you raises? OT is often much cheaper than carrying more full time staff, all with benefits, all requiring training. Up to a certain point OT is a much preferred thing from a financial standpoint.
On the other hand, flight cancellations are not good.... and when it's for a lack of crew they need to hire more. (or recall sooner).

You really should explain your rational for that statement to your pilots. Coming from somebody inside a union, it's very odd indeed.

(I'm assuming based upon your prior posts that you do hold some union position)

The entire employee cost is looked at, not simply the wage per hour. They look at everything from the on-boarding costs which includes the recruiting staff, the interview hotels, medical tests, transportation; then new hire on-boarding, ground school, hotels, transportation, simulator time, the instructors time, the administrative staff time; then paying the company share of all benefits, providing paid vacation time, and paid sick time.

It is much cheaper to pay an OT premium, even at 100% than to hire an extra employee that costs all the extra training, benefits and vacations. That holds true right up until the point that it becomes cheaper to pay all the misc costs to get the lower hourly rate. When that happens is something only they know.

You can't advocate NOT picking up OT, but you certainly shouldn't be encouraging it. The flip side is, if your pilots are already doing the right thing and the company has quietly threatened the union for a job action due to a large drop in OT pickup, then making that post would be a smart move.

This is for any airline, not just yours.

It's 150%. If you're not currently at envoy then gtfoastfu

Another thing to consider is how many of the furloughed pilots were actually line qualified? From the looks of the list a significant number were in the training pipeline and of no real use right now.

this guy gets it. Saying the extra cost hits them where it hurts is laughable. Good explanation above. Some will say, they’ll just junior man us anyway and the flights won’t cancel. Exactly, yes they will, but then they are short on people AND it costs a ton to pay the ones picking up the open flying involuntary. Huge difference. Key question is where is the break even point, only the company knows, maybe roughly at least.

Any means to justify picking up open does not really sit well with me. I kinda sorta get the part picking up to get back to min guarantee, but those we let go has a min guarantee of zero. If you need time off for family events etc, just take the hit and let a reserve fly and deal with 60-65 hours or whatever. Nothing says we have to make 72 hours every month.

Everyone is learning during these times, pilots, union, and even the company to certain extent.

These are all opinions, not direction.

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If your above quote is true, company would not have furloughed & would be recalling pilots & staff, instead of offering OT. They pull strings and fake strings to distract & influencing labor towards a direction. Inc has extensive, experienced Mgmt, legal and finance team.

I often respect your opinion many times. But how can you speak with two mouths?

It clearly bothers the company more because they've been trying to take that letter over and over. To suddenly stop would thrill the company because that's what they wanted all along. And according to Tom, the cost savings from the letter far exceeds the cost of the pilots furloughed, or am I misremembering?