CNN
 

Anyone catch the news clip this morning on CNN about the FAA investigating Envoy Air and "pilots lack of airmanship"?

time for another wave of anti-envoy memes on the usual channels. cant wait.

idk where this crap comes from. everyone I've flown with has been at least decent.

Link? It’s got to be from the letter that was floating around a while back. I’m sure RW is not pleased over this, but he’s the boss and the buck stops with him.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/19/busin...​​

Seems a little over the top...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0cd21829cb.jpg

“Envoy: A new Ope?”

I wouldn't worry. The only time people watch CNN is at airports.

RN’s next email is going to be “I did not enjoy reading the latest CNN article about the ‘voy, and here is a quick tip”

File a CSAP instead of an ASAP lol

Makes for cleaner terminations and helps the company by not having FAA look over them!

Is Envoy the next Colgan?
 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/19/business/american-airlines-envoy-air/index.html

Ooooffffff, that’s embarrassing and scary. Maybe Swayne can make an informational social media video explaining why the safety culture at Envoy is so bad.

Put down your phone Envoy influencers and fly the damn plane.

Expect scrutiny….. in something other than uniforms now!

honestly, scrutiny is good. There was a flush of hiring for a while when it was tough to get applicants. The scrutiny is an ongoing process, things going well or not. The negative PR is horrible and blown out of proportion, I guess mainline skygods have never slid a ship off the pavement. Look at commutair crash landing; didn’t even hit the runway. Next to no press on that, but sliding makes the news to question pilot experience or skill?

whoever leaked an internal FAA memo to the news for a cheap thrill ought to be ashamed. That was an internal process to make things safer, and now it’s more complicated. Negative PR helps no one. Click bait, nothing to see here… but try explaining that to the public. Any company in any industry on any given days has routine emails or memos that would make the general public cringe in the hands of the right news outlets.

Wow, talk about a hit piece.

Exactly! Wondering if we’re gonna be seeing some management changes

CNN website...

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/19/busin...air/index.html

Right on, Fascist Fox is my choice too and majority of the US population.

​​​​​​Swayne makes me gag everytime I stalk his IG lol

May be anecdotal, but according to the Envoy guys I get on my jump seat, get rid of the rotary guys and this problem goes away.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You have to look deeper into the issue. The rotary guys can be, or become, great aviators. But the Envoy training program is not teaching them anything about operating in an airline environment.

There are multiple issues that are causing this. The CNN article is a hit piece, it ignores the deeper causes behind these events. And they did not have the journalistic integrity to ask for statements from all involved parties.

"According to the cadets who don't like rotary guys" thanks for the hot take
our most special captains aren't rtp

Journalistic integrity and CNN in the same conversation?

It's not an either/or. CNN can be a joke without Fox being a journalistic triumph.

Besides, I guess my wit went right over your head.

They need a complete overhaul in the training department to start with. Starting with AH all the way down.

The new Mesa.

standards for airmanship, professionalism, and safety should be "extra" high at the wholly owned carriers, since there isn't really any future screening process before moving to bigger metal with 100s of passengers.

The possibility of getting fired for poor piloting incentivizes staying sharp. "The union will protect me" and "I never have to interview again" lets people get lazy if they want.

I'm sure it's not that simple, but does "flow" allow pilots to get complacent ?

Plot twist the letter was released by mainline recruiting to kill the flow.

I've flown with a lot of flows over the years, and Envoy is just like the rest - almost all great to fly with and just a few weirdos. Same with the off the street hires - Republic, LCC, military, etc...

The media would have a field day if they were to sit in on one of our human factors classes. I'm sure the same is true for Delta, United, etc.

I don't fly for ENY, but I do fly for a WO. All regionals have their challenges. ENY isn't the only one to make mistakes -- remember when CommuteAir missed the runway in Presque Isle?

The fact of the matter is that regional pilots fly longer days with more legs, into less controlled environments, often times under greater stress for statistical performance, on airframes with significantly older technology than mainline. A great example is the lack of in-flight weather. Mainline can access onboard wi-fi to access global weather products. All WO's are stuck using radar that couldn't heat up a bean burrito. Expand on that to the fact that, of the wholly owned' s, AA's largest singlet type is the 145 which isn't even equipped with a wifi product for the pilots to tap into.
Then we can discuss the consistently negative behavior of CP's at WO's. All of them are in it for the resume, because they got lazy flying the line, or because they're just not good pilots. Some of my CP's have been wrong, on the record, regarding airframe limitations, FOM procedures, MEL's, and HR and Corporate policies. But they sure will be quick to point out a lanyard that's not compliant, or socks that aren't black, or pants that aren't from an "approved" vendor.
So of course those poor guys were going to land in ORD. The risk of having to deal with Air Ops at a regional isn't the same as the risk at a mainline. There's no care, concern, or genuine leadership at almost any of the FFD carriers these days. Add to that their limited weather product availability, the fact that they probably didn't have gas to make them comfortable diverting (if I remember, I think the field was VMC at the time and at my company you'd have to go to court to get some extra gas on a VMC day).

TL;DR: All regionals have some safety issues. Almost all of them start and end at nonexistent leadership, poor culture, and a race to be "the best in the system, but only so far as on-time performance, because nobody cares about having the best place for our pilots." In some ways, this is no different than issues mainline carriers face. ENY pilots are just fine, and I've had the pleasure of jump seating on them a time or two. We might play like Navy vs. Army, but CNN's just looking to dog an airline now that people are flying again. This isn't a big issue. It would be a bigger issue if they had actually put the plane on that runway.

CNN. now there is a news organization without any bias.

What happened with the ORD skid incident? Wrong ATC report for rwy condition? Tried to take highspeed exit too fast? Or ?

Look at the pax video. No crosswind corrections on the ailerons and also from reliable source, no rudder either. Landed in a crab. Also exceeded max crosswind limits for conditions. Also I think CA flowed later.

The FAA proposed a $1.6 million fine to ORD over that incident. https://flightsafety.org/asw-article...ay-conditions/ The captain most certainly didn’t not flow. He’s a DEC and a very nice person.

you mean thats the opinion of the cadets?

From what I understand, the captain in the ORD runway excursion event didn't even get focus training. The NTSB or FAA or whoever it was determined the crew performed as trained and there were no deficiencies in airmanship. It has always struck me as odd that they would include that incident in their report, even if they did temper their condemnation slightly in the details.

"well other crews didnt skid off lol u suck"

dude, I don’t even know what a cadet is. I have fdj eag guys up front all the time in the last few months and many of them complain about the rotary guys. That’s all I’m saying.

I really want to fly with you so you can point out my flaws to my face. I’m sure you’re perfect in everything you do.

Looks to be in the TDZ to me? Gear down and everything.

Everything you posted is false.

You think an 8 hour interview day and a multiple choice personality test is a better judge of character than 5+ years as a PIC in 121?

If you know/knew eagle/envoy, they're quicker than anybody to discipline and fire pilots. If anything, these issues stem out of the fear culture perpetrated by that.

I can't speak for AA, but I know another legacy has plenty of weirdos that walked right in the front door.

Really. Videos never lie.

This!!!
Its not the lack of airmanship or train. I think it all comes back to fatigue and mental strain. We work longer days, with early starts and minimum rest very frequently and we are afraid of calling fatigue because of the enormous pressure management puts on us to stay on schedule. We also have fewer days off which adds to our fatigue when we don’t even have time to decompress at home.