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-   -   Its time to negotiate a better flow (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/135482-its-time-negotiate-better-flow.html)

Cujo665 10-28-2021 06:46 AM


Originally Posted by pitchattitude (Post 3314972)
My point was more the process by which the change would come about. Like you pointed out, that much increase in flow would cripple the regional. But as I pointed out, flow is not about staffing AA, but the WO regionals that feed it. It is a balancing act, but unlike figuring the CG on an RJ, no one knows where the balance point is.

On the contrary, if flow became real and was quicker, and not a 6-8 year thing, the line would be out the door to get the job. Make it a 1.5 years as CA and then flow, and watch how fast they line up for the job. Upgrade as soon as you make minimums, then 1.5 as CA, and boom you're eligible to flow. That could drop it down to a 3 year flow for a new FO....(4 would be more realistic).
You'd be perpetually training new hires, but you'd have pilots in the seats, and flights going out on schedule which other regionals won't.

TallFlyer 10-28-2021 06:56 AM


Originally Posted by Cujo665 (Post 3315050)
On the contrary, if flow became real and was quicker, and not a 6-8 year thing, the line would be out the door to get the job. Make it a 1.5 years as CA and then flow, and watch how fast they line up for the job. Upgrade as soon as you make minimums, then 1.5 as CA, and boom you're eligible to flow. That could drop it down to a 3 year flow for a new FO....(4 would be more realistic).
You'd be perpetually training new hires, but you'd have pilots in the seats, and flights going out on schedule which other regionals won't.

The bolded assumes that you'd have enough of an instructor and LCA cadre to actually keep that training process moving. In PSA's experience, they can't seem to keep enough of either around. Not every airline is stacked with the lifers who drunk the koolaid about how special they are in their 145s.

NoValueAviator 10-28-2021 07:17 AM

>ITT people figure out what some of us have known all along

Flow is next to worthless, AA will pile in outside hires/.mil and bury you in the bottom 1/4 of the seniority list for your entire career.

OTS or bust.

pitchattitude 10-28-2021 08:07 AM


Originally Posted by Cujo665 (Post 3315050)
On the contrary, if flow became real and was quicker, and not a 6-8 year thing, the line would be out the door to get the job. Make it a 1.5 years as CA and then flow, and watch how fast they line up for the job. Upgrade as soon as you make minimums, then 1.5 as CA, and boom you're eligible to flow. That could drop it down to a 3 year flow for a new FO....(4 would be more realistic).
You'd be perpetually training new hires, but you'd have pilots in the seats, and flights going out on schedule which other regionals won't.

Two years as captain after IOE is even unsustainable, but I maintain that absolute would be unreasonable. That means check airmen would pretty much have to be lifers. Not going to get the experience you need, through training and get any use out of someone as an instructor in that amount of time. Three years is more realistic.

And while they obviously have to increase training throughput, how are you going to get from where it is now to there?

But flow does have to increase, because if they don’t, they will lose those pilots anyway.

eligible2flow 10-28-2021 09:30 AM

Why can't AA send LCA down to regionals on special assignment?

buddies8 10-28-2021 10:20 AM


Originally Posted by eligible2flow (Post 3315151)
Why can't AA send LCA down to regionals on special assignment?

yes aa is having lca's quit as we speak why does not envoy send our lca's to aa to help our with the flow is better. But I forget there is something called cba and seniority list and on top far's.
Guess you are new.

eligible2flow 10-28-2021 10:28 AM


Originally Posted by buddies8 (Post 3315178)
yes aa is having lca's quit as we speak why does not envoy send our lca's to aa to help our with the flow is better. But I forget there is something called cba and seniority list and on top far's.
Guess you are new.

AA has sent pilots to wo on special assignment before. You seem upset, your associates degree and DUI isn't gonna be enough to get you on a mainline list without flow?

kcg003 10-28-2021 10:29 AM

To the OP and everyone thinking we have any kinda negotiation power. 🤣

AboveAndBeyond 10-28-2021 11:16 AM

What is the flow looking like right now? Curious how things compared for the 2014/2015 hires and the whole Charlie Bucket thing. What month/year were the upcoming November flows hired?

buddies8 10-28-2021 01:28 PM


Originally Posted by eligible2flow (Post 3315183)
AA has sent pilots to wo on special assignment before. You seem upset, your associates degree and DUI isn't gonna be enough to get you on a mainline list without flow?

really name a few that you know. Seems as you ignored cba and seniority list. SJS pilot aren't you.


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