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-   -   Its time to negotiate a better flow (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/135482-its-time-negotiate-better-flow.html)

dera 10-28-2021 01:34 PM


Originally Posted by buddies8 (Post 3315275)
really name a few that you know. Seems as you ignored cba and seniority list. SJS pilot aren't you.

JW obviously. Not sure of others.

ZeroTT 10-28-2021 03:17 PM

Fixing the flow might have worked in 2018.

that horse is waaaay out of the barn. The majors are going to consume the regional system in 2022 and something will have to rise in its place.

the captain/lca core to keep the current model going is gone. Dl/ua/aa alone are looking to hire over 5000 pilots. It’s game over. Will be really interesting to see what happens

pitchattitude 10-28-2021 04:31 PM


Originally Posted by ZeroTT (Post 3315341)
Fixing the flow might have worked in 2018.

that horse is waaaay out of the barn. The majors are going to consume the regional system in 2022 and something will have to rise in its place.

the captain/lca core to keep the current model going is gone. Dl/ua/aa alone are looking to hire over 5000 pilots. It’s game over. Will be really interesting to see what happens

Yes, but those are the same companies that need the regionals.

TallFlyer 10-28-2021 05:17 PM


Originally Posted by pitchattitude (Post 3315368)
Yes, but those are the same companies that need the regionals.

Um, negative. Those are the companies that need 76 seat aircraft to operate to support their current business model.

As it's becoming very apparent that the current FFD business model is going to be hard to operate in its current form, another way of operating those aircraft is going to be needed.

pitchattitude 10-28-2021 05:40 PM


Originally Posted by TallFlyer (Post 3315396)
Um, negative. Those are the companies that need 76 seat aircraft to operate to support their current business model.

As it's becoming very apparent that the current FFD business model is going to be hard to operate in its current form, another way of operating those aircraft is going to be needed.

It hasn’t changed yet so those 76 AND 50 seat aircraft have to be flown by someone, which is going to be a regional for regional pay, even if the pay finally does see a bit of improvement, it won’t be from flying them at mainline.

TallFlyer 10-28-2021 05:50 PM


Originally Posted by pitchattitude (Post 3315401)
It hasn’t changed yet so those 76 AND 50 seat aircraft have to be flown by someone, which is going to be a regional for regional pay, even if the pay finally does see a bit of improvement, it won’t be from flying them at mainline.

And when those "someones" (i.e. Regionals) can't get nearly enough pilots to replace the ones leaving for other jobs to show up to class, or their training throughput is limited because they can't keep LCAs around?

Planes don't magically fly themselves.

buddies8 10-28-2021 05:55 PM


Originally Posted by dera (Post 3315280)
JW obviously. Not sure of others.

jw once he flowed came off our seniority list and was not put back on it.
LCA have to be envoy pilot on the seniority list, now some other carries in the past contracted that ou but never here.

dera 10-28-2021 07:21 PM


Originally Posted by buddies8 (Post 3315412)
jw once he flowed came off our seniority list and was not put back on it.

You are wrong. Check your notes. He was a 4/2019 "hire".

KirillTheThrill 10-28-2021 07:27 PM


Originally Posted by ZeroTT (Post 3315341)
Fixing the flow might have worked in 2018.

that horse is waaaay out of the barn. The majors are going to consume the regional system in 2022 and something will have to rise in its place.

the captain/lca core to keep the current model going is gone. Dl/ua/aa alone are looking to hire over 5000 pilots. It’s game over. Will be really interesting to see what happens

“Game over” 😂😂😂. I got an even better line for the regional model after 2022, “Thanks for playing” 😀😀🤣.

Maybe we should petition the airport audio tracks to play “closing time” by Semisonic every hour for 2022.

dera 10-28-2021 08:13 PM


Originally Posted by KirillTheThrill (Post 3315451)
“Game over” 😂😂😂. I got an even better line for the regional model after 2022, “Thanks for playing” 😀😀🤣.

Maybe we should petition the airport audio tracks to play “closing time” by Semisonic every hour for 2022.

Hard to see how the regional model can compete. Even ACMIs pay so well these days. 1st year Atlas FOs making 205/hr, and senior CAs making 520/hr for some flights, without doing OT.

That 50/hr for the dream of flowing one day just isn't going to cut it.


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