What's wrong with PBS? Idk anything about it. I assumed it would be some type of bidding system that gives better odds of getting days off that you actually want off?

It is a different bidding system. I’ll let others expand on it that have more details and experience, but it allows you to bid for individual sequences instead of an entire line. It boils down to it is still seniority based. Your odds of getting an OVERALL better schedule is still dependent on YOUR seniority and quality of the sequences. All the senior pilots will still pick all the best sequences and days off and the junior pilots will still be left with the low value, weekend sequences. It MAY allow you to get a specific day off that you want, but still only if not everyone senior to you wants it.

The devil is in the details of the constraints that are built into things like minimum days off, trip values, etc. Whether or not you can DTS in conjunction with vacation and how conflicts work. But like I said earlier, there are limited things that can be done with the flight file that AAG gives to ENY. Garbage in still equals garbage out.

I definitely was not referring to cuj665

PBS is all about the rules and pairings. Ric & Jane will not give you a PBS system that favors the pilots. It’s designed to save them between $5M-$7M per year. We went through this in depth, even testing the system with the pilots back after the bankruptcy. We had PBS trainers out in the crew rooms teaching guys how to use it and running side by side with the line bidding.
PBS at this company is a huge concession, that’s a fact. Even more so with this management team. Garbage in gets garbage out. However, it will end all transition conflicts, vacation conflicts and training conflicts.

Theyll talk about new pairing generation software and other crap; the reality is if the pilots aren’t controlling the pairing generation and the software rules then it’s them just trying to scam everybody again with a huge huge concession. Seriously, back under the old old pay rates it saved them $5M to $7M per year. What are you getting for it? False hope of better schedules? They will not give up control which means it’s a concession in every respect.

I dont have much time left here to be all that worried about any of this, but yeah, PBS was an eyebrow raiser. No reason to be giving in to that now.

For those who have seen ric's email the first chart under captain, anyone remember getting that 10k and 5k? Since its high lighted yellow the note below states we already got that money. I do not remember getting that 10k and 5k.

The $10K and $5K are based on the current new hire bonus structure. You may or may not have received a bonus of a similar amount depending when you were hired.

I was hired well before December 2021

This all begs the question of what happens if PBS is agreed to without knowing all the details? Sounds like the pilot group is potentially giving up a lot.

I think the details of the PBS need to be worked out before it is agreed to.

New hire bonuses were a thing back as early as sometime in 2016. IIRC they were $17K or $22K depending which airplane you got. I think there was a slightly different iteration since then and before these current numbers as well.

Let's be honest. There is no way envoy mec will be able to get proper language to protect pilots regarding schedule PBS protections.
let's not forget all that soft money every pilotvwill lose.
This updated bonus plan is not worth it if PBS is in anyway attached or part to this agreement.

The two are completely separate. There is an “Enhanced retention bonus” LOA and a “QOL improvement” LOA. The PBS is tied to the supposed QOL improvements.

That’s my point that the language should be worked out before agreeing to anything.

For the record, I’m not saying what should or shouldn’t be given or taken, just that the details should be locked in before deciding to accept it or not.

Base closure TDY language
 

So, QOL LOA has a nice little nugget about TDYs in the event of a base closure within the next 18 months. Tell me that isn’t in there for a reason! Envoy is preparing to be two domiciles again.

My money is still on MIA going away again, but who knows what back room drug deals are in the works from AAG with SKW and RPA.

Piedmont management has been planning on taking ORD 145 over from ENY since 2021… IF they can staff it.

This right here 100%. Been at envoy long enough to know better.

They can’t staff what they have. Nobody can.

Maybe they can't staff it better than we can't staff it..

They're not going to sacrifice CLT to do ORD. CLT is a moneymaker and a perfect market for the 145 in many cases. I could see them repositioning from PHL but AAG is not known for bold strategy.

I would not give PBS to this company. Make a single pilot list with AA is the ONLY way I’d ever consider it. It’s that huge a oncession.
it “can” be good. But not with this management team. They can’t be trusted at all.

One wonders if the monumental incompetence of mgmt. would curb their ability to mess up our lives more with PBS though. They're not very effective at anything they do. I personally have a difficult time imagining our schedules getting any worse.

It's a little scary there's nothing about capping trips at 5 days with minimum 3 days off in between or something though. I am picturing 6 on 1 off forever.

you got it, and the precedent for base closures was my NY base closure LOA that they forever hated me for holding them hostage for too much. They completely failed to consider the alternative was to let everybody sit home paid (which they were prepared to violate and arbitrate). They’re like a snake oil salesman with new lube. Don’t buy.

worse, 18 on…..

tell the MEC to stop doing the bandaid LOA’s now. That time was from 2016 until now. Now the physical shortage is here. Before was just a pay shortage. Wait for the CBA and career progression changes coming at other regionals. This management team is about to get a big wake up call.

Y’all got any of those LOA’s for trip rigs coming soon?

It's funny that at PSA management is facing the same uphill struggle to implement PBS because no one trusts them to run it in a way that benefits the pilots, or even operate it competently.

Then they have the nerve to reiterate that any QOL improvements will be tied to PBS. In this environment none of us should be giving up anything. They should give us pay and qol benefits, and in exchange they get their attrition to slow down.

Delta is number one. They have a $1B operational advantage over United. Maybe SWA if they call, but if you’re anywhere else it’s a no-brainer.

Out of those two, I would only consider Delta or AA.

Demand the right no vote.
threaten a DFR lawsuit for significant changes to the work rules or compensation.

Delta had a 16.6% profit sharing in 2020. If your making 2-300k that’s a nice fat check. I believe AA was a few %. Per diem is $.15 more and pay rates are slightly better at Delta. I feel like your gambling not taking the Delta job, but it might just all come down to staying in Chicago which could TRUMP any economic or seniority advantage with Delta. Good luck!

Former DCL here, now at ABX (ACMI). Not a recruiter but fyi ~ In person pilot interview dates announced:
Homewood Suites-DFW
June 3-4 (Fri-Sat)
Hiring for class dates: 6/30, 8/2, 9/6 with more TBA
[email protected]
Text recruiter 937-469-4554

This place has its pro’s and con’s but definitely better than Envoy and growing. All 76 domestic and intl. Been here 9 months, if the economy goes to crap this isn’t a bad place to be with QOL, pay, schedules etc. reserve is about 5-6 months. Upgrades around 3 years. 1 base: CVG, mostly Amazon and DHL flying. PM with questions.

I’d like to get more eagle folks (RTP & Civ) over here. Fly safe.

CJOs at Delta, FedEx, UPS, SWA, JetBlue and United.

Class date with Delta in a few weeks.

Live 3 hours from Miami (central Florida).


6 months from flowing.

any inputs?



TIA,

TORO

This sounds like satire.

No Brotha! Totally serious.


Really like some inputs here. Been on mil leave for 3 years and trying to make a smart decision.

Only airline that hasn’t take the bite is AA.


TORO

Have you tried contacting AA recruiting and sent copies of your CJOs? There has been mixed success with this. But if you WANT AA and are serious enough to take one of the other CJOs, nothing to lose.

Personally, I’d take the FedEx. But your mileage may vary.

I put in my two weeks at PSA this week. CJO at the ULCC has been sent to AA with a nicely worded email. We’ll see what happens. Worst case scenario I’ll drive an A320 out of FL.

Any idea what triggered FedEx? Been trying there.

This sounds like satire. jk lol

I used to work the ramp for them in college. Stayed in touch with one of the chief pilots.

With UPS I have no idea tho.


TORO

Fedex. You’ll never be happier.

AA won’t take anyone outside the flow within 6 months.

From my perspective, the closer you are to the flow, the MORE of a reason to take you verses letting you go somewhere else. They already got there pound of flesh from you, but I guess their thought is “no one would dare leave that close to the flow”.

I guess the reality is people will ultimately do what works best in their situation.

I'm going with FedEx, ups and delta in that order.