Envoy questions
I’ll go Straight to the point. I have a couple of questions regarding Envoy….
thank you |
1. All the lower day off lines (11-13) are 95% 4 on, with varying amounts of days off but (almost?) never less than 2 between trips. Higher day off trips a mix of 3 and 4 days on. Highest day off lines (17+) are 1 or 2 day on trips. Often they are arranged together, though. 1on + 2on, then 3 off. etc.
Line break down ORD (80 Lines, June 2022): 11 Days off: 10 (12.5%) 12 Days off: 20 (25%) 13 Days off: 12 (15%) 14 Days off: 12 (15%) 15 Days off: 20 (25%) 16 Days off: 1 19 Days off: 2 (I know that doesn't add up to 80, but its close) 2. Approx. DOH of most junior line holder (June 2022): DFW 175 FO Sep 2021 ORD 175 FO Oct 2021 MIA 175 FO Aug 2021 3. Last few class awards: 6/13/22: 15 DFW, 1 MIA 5/30/22: 21 DFW, 11 MIA 5/16/22: 8 DFW, 21 MIA Moving bases: A pilot hired in Feb 2022 was awarded MIA 175 effective Jul 2022. He came out of training in June having originally been awarded ORD 175. Base transfers are done during vacancy bids, which are offered roughly 4 times a year. 4. In December vacation is handed out based on years of service for use the following year. Pilots with less than 1 year seniority receive 1.167 days of vacation per month for amount of months served. Pilots hired on or before the 15th of a month will have that month credited towards vacation accrual. After 1 year: 1 Week After 2 years: 2 Weeks After 7 years: 3 Weeks After 14 years: 4 Weeks |
A little detail about the higher 15+ day off lines is that someone hired today will likely never hold them. As an FO they usually go to the guys returning from mil leave, and for CA they go to lifers. You will upgrade before you hold them as FO, and you will flow before you hold them as CA.
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Originally Posted by dera
(Post 3446852)
A little detail about the higher 15+ day off lines is that someone hired today will likely never hold them. As an FO they usually go to the guys returning from mil leave, and for CA they go to lifers. You will upgrade before you hold them as FO, and you will flow before you hold them as CA.
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Originally Posted by BurnCycle
(Post 3446881)
True, however the "claims" about PBS are that it'll build better lines with shorter trips and more days off. Of course, the source of these claims should be taken into account.
No, PBS does not build the pairings unless they go with Jeppesen and use their Calibrator (which they won't because it's by far the most expensive option). The pairings will stay the same, PBS simply builds the lines from those pairings. PBS is all about work rules and since those have not been negotiated yet, it is impossible to predict how it will work - apart from the fact that you'll still do 98% 4-day trips, because those are built independent of PBS. You already see the first effect of "min day pay" - The pairings are built with more front and back end turns decreasing the number of commutable lines. No more 1-2-2-1 bliss. PBS has no effect on that. |
Originally Posted by dera
(Post 3446894)
No, PBS does not build the pairings unless they go with Jeppesen and use their Calibrator (which they won't because it's by far the most expensive option). The pairings will stay the same, PBS simply builds the lines from those pairings. PBS is all about work rules and since those have not been negotiated yet, it is impossible to predict how it will work - apart from the fact that you'll still do 98% 4-day trips, because those are built independent of PBS.
You already see the first effect of "min day pay" - The pairings are built with more front and back end turns decreasing the number of commutable lines. No more 1-2-2-1 bliss. PBS has no effect on that. |
Originally Posted by BurnCycle
(Post 3446905)
Hence my "consider where it's coming from" context. I honestly don't know much about PBS, but I do know the "promises" are usually hollow. I've heard what you've said, that it's all dependent on HOW it's implemented, and it'll take a small miracle for it to fall our way. If it costs a lot, it surely won't.
Back then Jeppesen was the only provider that had an option for a pairing generator/optimizer, everyone else you just feed the pairings built by the current tool. As long as JE is in charge of CS, expect nothing good to come out from that department. |
Originally Posted by dera
(Post 3446934)
A few years ago the MEC did quite a bit of homework about PBS, and went to the providers to hear their spiel.
Back then Jeppesen was the only provider that had an option for a pairing generator/optimizer, everyone else you just feed the pairings built by the current tool. As long as JE is in charge of CS, expect nothing good to come out from that department. |
Originally Posted by dera
(Post 3446894)
You already see the first effect of "min day pay" - The pairings are built with more front and back end turns decreasing the number of commutable lines. No more 1-2-2-1 bliss. PBS has no effect on that. So right now on a 4 day it’s usually 1 leg 2 legs 2 legs 1 leg? Or did I read that wrong |
Originally Posted by planejoe
(Post 3447247)
So right now on a 4 day it’s usually
1 leg 2 legs 2 legs 1 leg? Or did I read that wrong |
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