3 tbnt's in 3 months
 

Just curious, anybody knows what are they specifically looking for? I keep reapplying every 30 days like the automatic email says to. This is for a first officer position with R-ATP mins.

Scrub your application very carefully, make sure there are no dumb typos which would cause a computer to filter you out. Make sure you meet their published mins and that your app reflects that accurately.

If you also submitted a resume, go over that very carefully too.

Other than that, somebody who works there might have more info as to their current hiring plans and competitive mins.

Is this for Envoy?

They are looking for Captains. They haven't hired R-ATPs in a while now.

False, there’s been R-ATPs in every Orientation class for the past 6 months. I would know because I was one of them.

In light of your numerous TBNT situation, hire a resume and App review service, interview prep, then plan to hit some job fairs and re-approach things

expired medicals, "NO" accidently checked to high school graduate, other stuff can trip the intake computer to issue a TBNT

A street hire or a cadet?

Street hire. I did go to one of Envoy’s partner flight schools though (just never applied to be a cadet)

The whole regional industry has rapidly pivoted from hiring anyone within reach of r-atp mins to having vastly more applicants than spots.

You should double check your application, but more likely you should double check your assumptions. Part 91 or 135 might be the more viable move.

You must have done bad in the technical part of the interview. I heard the technical part is very intensive

A resume is not just about flight hours. What are your other accomplishments? Have you had checkride failures? Airline managements are starting to learn what the military knew 85 years ago. You can train to proficiency but that does not mean you are going to send a good product to the line. Checkride failures particularly at the majors are going to get more scrutiny.

I wouldn’t call it intensive. It’s fairly thorough, but easily studied for and all the gouge is out there.. All about Jepp plates and something you have to know if you are going to fly 121.

So I basically emailed them begging for an interview after the initial automated denial, and I got a recruiter to finally tell me what went wrong.

1) I didn't enter my passport information (it was highlighted as optional on AirlineApps, and I just brushed past it)
2) I had a gap of employment between my high school graduation and starting university (literally 3 months for summer vacation..) Also between graduating University and finding a CFI job.

One other thing, they won't take you unless you have ever last hour necessary for R-ATP (I got denied AGAIN because of 2.4 hours of cross country time lol).

Told me to call them when I have the hours to schedule my interview.

interesting, do you have the contact info for a recruiter? or know where to get it? I might try that

I've never had an intensive tech interview at a regional, even back in the day. Other than a sim check in a 707 when I was a CFI.

The knowledge is basic IFR and 121 stuff, that any line pilot should know, and the gouge is available. They used to ask technical questions about the airplane you're *currently* flying, but again that shouldn't be too hard either.

I'll PM you some tips and tricks.

Greetings everyone.

Well my current situation is, a successful employee at ExpressJet Airlines for three years up until the company shut down as a result of Covid. Then one year at Republic Airways where I was successful during initial training with no failures. Well. . . . looks like I tripped extremely badly with the recurrent qualification validation a year later. I approached it with the wrong study habits of two months prior studying and made quite a bid of mistakes. I didn't complete the MV on time. But finished it the following day. Then failed the Knowledge Validation (KV). Retook it and passed the following day. Then was the LOE where we get two attempts. I failed both attempts from pretty bad mistakes and LOE was also an unsatisfactory. So incomplete MV (non PRIA event), and failed KV & LOE (both are in PRIA records) all in one recurrency event. And I was asked to resign after that. So . . . . oops! That was definitely the worst slip in my airline career I ever made and it's possible that my events may not be forgiven.

I just submitted my application to Envoy hoping for a continuation after learning from my huge mistake and know the much better routine of staying prepared. Envoy would be Awesome for me as the ERJ-170 is my recent experience. Despite being a high time FO and above qualification for Captain upgrade (over 2600 hours in Part 121 time), I think i'm the one that shall continue to face TBNT's now from just about all the carriers now. Certainly in bad shape after the wrong approach to studying and preparing for recurrency at Republic. All I can do is just wait and see what they say when they review my app. Fingers crossed!

Over 3 failures and last 121 training event incompleted/failed, both alone would require a "special case" to be escalated to the captain review board at Envoy. You'll have a steep uphill battle to fight.

Yup, I doubt i'll have a chance in this now or just about anywhere else 121, not even 135. :-(

You'll need a few years of positive training history at any certificated carrier. Don't forget places like Cape Air, Ameriflight, Planesense and so on.

Keep your head up and cast a wide net for your next round of applications. Don’t just shoot for 121 or 135 and stay humble. Something will work out and you’ll have a chance for a career in aviation one way or another. Take advantage of whatever opportunity presents itself. It could all be a blessing in disguise if you have the right attitude.

You can get through this. It's ok to take an honest step back and consider where you're at and why this mistake happened. What did you do before ExpressJet? If you don't have your CFI, consider getting it, CFII and MEI. Instructors are needed...

Actually I got all three of those. Just haven't instructed GA in years now so it's gonna be a long time to process it all back in me again. Prior to ExpressJet I worked Aerial Survey and worked all across the nation doing lots of unusual activities (Salary was $900/month). Prior was flight instructing in my home state of NJ. Student loads were pretty low, was barely flying twice a week, barely making $100/week.

Even PlaneSense just rejected my application and I was not selected for furthering. This recent 121 failure is extremely severe.

There are some good instructing jobs in NJ and around PHL. You could make decent money and make another run at 121/135 down the line if you don't get any bites right now. Instructor rates have gone up a similar percentage relative to regional rates.

I've literally never heard of anyone failing cq at an airline. Why didn't the union protect you?
If you don't mind would you expand on it a bit more? Ive done a dozen recurrents and only ever needed to study up on profiles like v1 cuts and such.

It's been strongly suggested that you seek professional counseling before you go any further. Have you done this, yet?

You can throw the football all day long, but unless it's inflated properly, you're wasting your time.

Emerald Coast, been with them all along.

Like the lead stewards said to me over the phone "I suggest you start applying to carriers who are willing to take a chance with a guy like you!!".

The recurrent event, incomplete MV, and failed KV and LOE at the same time. It is the first failure in my 121 history but that combination in one recurrent qualification is pretty severe in my background!!

That is an unproductive and ridiculous thing for a steward to say.

How has Emerald Coast suggested you deal with your recent past?

Alot to say, other than he's told me about several other wash out rates. Still trying. . .

huh? Trust me, its been done

What I was getting at was the counseling regarding your current situation; Have you gone to Emerald Coast with your present situation to discuss the best way to address it (I don't care for the term "spin it"), while forming a plan going forward? Was your Emerald Coast counseling prior to this last round of training failures and resignation, or before? Any counseling from before is nice, but what you definitely need is one-on-one guidance now, specific to your situation.

No, it certainly is not. There's a lot of wisdom in what the steward told him, given the circumstance. It's time to take that counsel to heart.

im with you. How is this even possible? Especially after two successful initials, and 3 years at ExpressJet doing recurrents. Something’s not adding up.

Watch out! JohnBurke is gonna start tossing wrenches at you all, as it'll be on like DODGEBALL here!! lol

Like JohnBurke said, not adding adequate amount of rudder in flight during SE is student pilot learning, not airline qualification learning, and that's an intolerable mistake. I mean it was not the entire duration of flight. More like somewhere around 2-3 mins in cruise. I caught it as we were entering the phase of the approach "Whoops!! My mistake!" and corrected it. But it was too late. LCA wrote it down. And i'm the complete idiot, now that even JohnBurke here is leading the criticisms here.

Ok. . . . here's my expanding. . . JohnBurke. . . enough. . . Please!!!


Anyways . . . on MV I was a bit rusty on the SE as I haven't done it in a while. And was rusty on setting RNAV on the FMS for visual approaches (Visual. . . not an instrument approach). Ran out of time on MV. Next LCA went over techniques with me on the chalk board, really helpful techniques. Finished the MV in just 20 mins. Seat filler was an instructor as my CA called out sick. Even he complimented me "great job, you know what your doing!".

Then KV. . . weak on hydraulics, said some wrong acronyms (IDG, EDP, forgot what PACKS stood for, the hose lines in the landing gears, etc). Unsatisfactory. Retook and passed.

LOE. . . during SE (yes . . . SE is on both MV & LOE) I left the airplane uncoordinated for about 2-3 minutes in cruise. Caught it when entering the approach phase and realized "Whoops! my mistake" and corrected it. And our Vref was 150 kts to compensate SE approach and I should have idled the power sooner during flare, as I mainly flew the usual 140-130 kts Vref approach. So I floated and landed past the touch down zone. LCA gave me second attempt. I corrected all the errors but then made a different mistake. I was above the GS on the ILS. So I used FPA to increase rate of descent. I eventually caught it and landed in the touch down zone safely. However I brought us outside the stabilized approach criteria. Exceeded the maximum 1000FPM descent rate and I made the wrong decision and should have elected to "Go-Around" and try the approach again. LOE was Unsat right there. LCA made a recommendation to provide additional training to fix the gaps but the training review board denied it. So . . that was the end of it.

In two subsequent posts, twenty minutes apart, you attempt to call me out for attacking you, then turn around and agree with me, and in a concurrent thread in another forum here, where your story is playing out, you accuse me once more. This, in the space of a few minutes. I mentioned in the other thread that this sounds bipolar.

You need to understand, despite your paranoia and cornered-cat behavior, the posts that have been made, every one in response to YOUR comments, have all been made in your best interest.

You need to understand that your situation isn't particularly isolated or unique. I've seen your case before. Three such cases posting nearly simultaneously on this web site right now. All different responses: yours is the most defensive and scattered, and it's perplexing. You jump back and forth between agreeing, defending, denying, excusing, and full circle again. There is no character arc of change, which is requireid for a story. A story has direction; yours, at the moment, is more like the perimeter of an amoeba. You may not understand this.

Again, you need to understand that your situation is not a singular anomaly, an outlier that is so foreign as to be incomprehensible. Most of us who have been in the industry for very long have seen it. I've represented individuals nearly in the same boat as you; the ones who were successful were quick to own their failures, embrace the changes, seek the assistance they needed, and move forward. You can cry over spilt milk all day long. You can slap down the counsel you've been given, as you continue to do. This doesn't hurt me. It doesn't hurt anyone else here. It is to your detriment, and yours alone. Some of us have done this for a long time now. Many decades. We've seen failures happen. Many of us have had our own. Career setbacks occur, sometimes of our own making, sometimes entirely out of our control (mergers, bankruptcies, regulatory changes, economic downturns, yada, yada), yet we roll with them, adjust, and re-evaluate our game plan going forward. Many of us have been fired, furloughed, laid off, shown up to a locked hangar; you name it. The bottom line is that to find yourself in a situation in which your progress in one particular direction is limited, is not the end of the trail. You have opportunities and a future, but it depends entirely on you.

Maybe ExpressJet was just too good to be true. Maybe they were cutting everybody way too much slack?? I'm pretty sure I made mistakes during recurrent MV and LOE and maybe the satisfactory were not well deserved. We're dangerous at ExpressJet? Or maybe a new era raised in me at Republic and I turned into somebody totally different? I don't know. . . . JohnBurke here maybe has the answers.

Ok . . . .this right here. . . . you probably won't believe me. . . but yeah. . .that's true. . . I really do agree with most of that. . . I really do. Not all of it though!! Regarding about the descriptions of my mistake at Republic's recurrent, you described me as an idiot!!! But let me say this . . . . jumping back to ExpressJet initial training. . . My sim partner during initial at ExpressJet, he deserved to be let go'd for how the way he kept over reacting like he was mad at the world. The time he got paired up with me as my study partner, that was actually his second attempt in the entire initial training curriculum, over 20 sim sessions, and yet I witnessed a couple red screens from him. So his example is a lot higher than my issues here. I had to continue alone without a study partner. But now back to the topic of Republic. Your comments regarding the mistakes I made: "That's student pilot level learning", well . . . what would you have said to my class mates at Republic with previous years flying multiengine turbines who made worse mistakes (maybe not worse than me, just my guess) where during V1 cut they did not use proper rudder placement and red screened after stalling and crashing. Another guy forgot to reduce rudder on landing and side loaded the ******* out of the landing. I saw it when I was invited to sit inside the full motion simulator as an observer to learn and take notes. What would you have said to them?? Seriously! You're a check airman. . . aren't you??