Exactly. Mason, if even here at AA, must have been an AE guy. You are hired at a regional. Nothing is guaranteed to ML.... Until we at AA push to get something definitive for all our wholly owns it won't be done. Instead Mason and his AA buddies rather keep a DOH jump seat policy and other nonsense then making things better. I know on the Airways side the officers in Philly at least seem willing and informed we need to do something from the top for all THREE wholly owns....

Maybe madon could start on the AA side instead of putting "facts" out there which are obvious..... You all knew what was coming last time and the same will this time.... Mason though continues to keep you all believing he's in the know. He's less in the know then you all realize.

Despite its flaws the 97 contract ended nearly all whipsawing in the AMR regional system for nearly two decades. All Eagle pilots prospered in some manner from this even if they won't admit it.


And look at Republic. They've "held the line" yet every day they lose more and more money as they work under their old contract. It would have been better to do an average deal 5 years ago than continue their current path. Time doesn't stand still for a line in the sand.

The flow stopped years before 9-11. Do you even know your own history? Just as the flow was restarting is when 9-11 hit.

You are correct about one thing. A decent contract is more valuable than a flow program.

Again, I'm only presenting what is wrong with your posts. Post 911, many, if not most awaiting flow made MORE than the bottom 20% of AA FOs. Some even more than your CAs. Not to mention their QOL was astronomically higher than being at the bottom 3% of the AA list for 15 years. So thats pay.

Seniority, they left eagle with vacation sen for vacation, relative seniority wise, they really lost nothing. Retirement, not too much of a lose there, eagle match was 100% of 8%.

Ask the FOs that supported the deal, what FOs? Prrtty much all the FOs that supported the deal upgraded in 3 years. The 10 year aFOs came after the contract.

I keep correcting what you wrote and you keep adding stuff.

This all started with you asking how it worked out for the flows, the answer, GREAT.

You keeping painting the picture that the last flow/16year deal was a travesty and screwed the people that was at eagle when it was signed, when in fact quite the opposite is true for those folks.

They were promised something, and it wasn't delivered. Like it or not, that is a loss.

Time value of money

So all those that say the 16 year deal was a good deal have to also say that what happened 9 11 was a good thing.

Huh?........

Had 911/age 65 not happened, the 16 year deal would have delivered as promised and gave everyone a great career. Because it did happen the 16 year contract was also a good deal for the people that had their flowed delayed. Why don't you just go and say the people that thought the 16yr contract was a good deal support terrorists while youre at it.

You guys do know this is a forum, and your personal squabbles can be hashed out in their own thread right?

You're comparing the very top of Eagle to the very bottom of AA. The contract covered all their pilots, not just the bunch who got numbers. The bottom 70% at Eagle got screwed by that false promise of flowing in 2-4 years. Perhaps you should ask some of them. Our third year pay on our crap bankruptcy contract is above their CA rates.

You're comparing their 8% match to our defined pension (at the time) plus the 401k matching?

I got a check for well over $100k for what was just given up in BK. How did the Numbered guys still at Eagle do? If they got $10k they did well.

You really want to continue this debate about how much better off they'd have been being here 13 years ago, instead of waiting? Our reserve system is still better than their best line, especially at our pay rates. Go ask some of the new guys on reserve, they'll tell you the very worst day here is better than the very best day they ever had at Eagle.

Spin it how you want. They took a bad deal in 97 on false promises. It absolutely worked out for some, but not for the majority. Go ask the 400-500 guys at Envoy that are now too old to flow and recoup the pay if the flow through worked for them. 13 years ago, they'd have come over. There are almost as many who've declined as numbered guys who flowed. I could be off a bit, my Envoy stuff is second hand, so I don't actually know if it's 400-500 declining. It's just what I was told.