Sorry if I was a bit harsh but just take the time to read most of this thread and you should get the drift of how things are headed at Envoy.

Even if you live in DFW coming here may sound attractive at first but keep in mind you might be put on the CRJ. You will then be commuting to ORD or NY. If you get the EMB, you will probably not get DFW right away and will probably be commuting to NY or MIA. And with the way things are going at Envoy, there's a very good chance you would get displaced and not live in base regardless.

The bad news has been pouring in for quite a while and this looks ever more like a dead end. I hope I eat my words but I'm not optimistic. Even our MEC is trying to offer solutions for current pilots to find employment elsewhere.

Really though, if you think this is the best, go for it. There are still a number of regional's far worse and I would definitely go to Envoy before them. But just keep all things in mind. Good luck.

May 18, 2014

Fellow Miami Pilots,

We are severely disappointed with the communication from Pedro Fábregas. His accusations of “false information” are appalling. His desire to “set the record straight” is laughable. Management have proven themselves the masters of misinformation. One false promise after another.

Management said during the bankruptcy, if we signed the BK deal we would get airplanes. Now, they say that was different management. Nice excuse - we say that is a promise not kept. During the AIP vote, they threatened us with a March 21st deadline for the vote closing. When the MEC decided the vote would close on the 28th, management acquiesced. Time and time again management has changed or fled from their threats.

Most recently, Mr. Fábregas said we will have 200 aircraft at Envoy. This is misleading or in his words “misinformation.” Let’s work through some of the company’s own statements. We currently have 224 aircraft. The company’s SEC filing says we lose 25 140s this year. That takes us down to 199 aircraft. So, we are already below Pedro’s “promise” of 200 aircraft. But let’s keep working through their comments. Repeatedly, they have said if we voted NO they would move the CRJs elsewhere, and they appear to be in the process of doing this. As you know, the most recent vacancy bid was cancelled. So, if we can take management word as truth, the CRJs are leaving. Continuing with the math, 199-47=152 aircraft. A far stretch from 200. Yet, Pedro said, our Chairman’s message was “false information.” If the company follows through on their “word”, they will park the remaining 140s. This will leave us with 118 aircraft. Yeah, sounds like Mr. Fábregas is really setting the record straight.

We challenge management to lay out the details for those aircraft. During the AIP we were given a 170 aircraft fleet plan. We voted NO, and now we get a 200 aircraft “promise” from Pedro. Pedro’s promise sounds like misinformation to us. Before the AIP, management said if we voted no they would move the CRJs sooner rather than later. Now Pedro says, “The CRJs stay here for the foreseeable future.” In light of the recent cancelled bid, we dare management to define that time frame.

When we read Mr. Fábregas’ statement, that the MEC came back to him, we were shocked. HE CAME TO US! Mr. Fábregas asked that the MEC develop a proposal that the entire MEC could get behind. Shortly after, he asked us if the MEC would support the AIP with APA seniority numbers. Our chairman explained to him that the process for that would be complicated and that the pilots would be skeptical of any new deal coming from management. He told Captain Sprague to let him worry about getting the numbers. The Chairman was immediately aware that this seemed like a ploy from the company to have us make an offer. Mr. Fábregas later came back to us and said AAG management was not interested. In our opinion Mr. Fábregas was being used by AAG management to get the MEC to present an offer so they could reject it. We now see in their rebuttal that this is playing out. They want it to seem like the MEC is desperate. Nothing is further from the truth. The MEC is more resolved now than ever.

I also take offense that Mr. Fábregas wrote Congress a letter detailing his concerns about the pilot shortage. He wrote:
“This has become an obstacle to the industry’s continuing ability to provide regional air service to many small and medium sized communities around the country. Several regional airlines have already reduced their levels of flying, attributing it to the pilot shortage and the pilot shortage is not getting any better. In the relative near term it could well result in additional service cutbacks within the industry, hurting each of those many communities individually – including their residents and employers – and also having a negative impact on the national economy.”

So management comes to us and says we are too expensive. Yet, they go to Congress and points out that the shortage is already happening. We applaud the Congressional Committee for seeing these for what they are capable of. They cannot have it both ways. They can’t cry to Congress about a shortage, and yet they want to lower the income of pilots. Some of these pilots are strapped down in student loan debt of over $100,000. Every red cent matters to our FOs. Management should be embarrassed. We are embarrassed for them.

Mr. Fábregas “mischaracterizes” the Chairman’s comments on PBS. At no time did Captain Sprague accuse the company of implementing PBS as punishment for rejecting the TA. What Captain Sprague did say is that the push to implement PBS “fits nicely” with the apparent plan to punish the pilots at Envoy. Captain Sprague rightly pointed out that the company will take a bite out of our hides if we vote no to PBS.

As dire as things seem, this all could be alleviated. The company could swallow their pride and come back to the table in a reasonable manner. They do not appear that they want to do that at this time. They have told us that they will place aircraft elsewhere. They might come back to us further down the road. Our fear is that it will be too late. We cannot attract new hires, because pilots do not want to come here with this Comair II threat being held over our heads. We can’t keep pilots here, because the company said there will be displacements and our future is uncertain. We do not believe we can continue the amount of flying AA wants us to do while sustaining such a large hit against our attrition level.

It is time for AAG to take the nearly 2700 pilots at Envoy seriously and uphold our current agreement. Mr. Fábregas, please stop giving us empty promises! It’s time for management to work with us to keep Envoy on a path to success, so that pilots can find a prosperous career here. It is time to make good on your word, so we can move forward as healthy company with qualified pilots willing to fill the seats of our aircraft!

Fly safe,

JF and KW

No problem man!
I already have a class date elsewhere, I will interview with 2 more and then make a decision. And yes, I am in DFW. So other than Eagle, that means "commute".
I was just trying to figure out where those CRJs were heading and get up to date info and as accurate as possible (they were coming here and now who knows). Things seem to be changing constantly and drastically at Envoy.

If you want dfw your odd are better on the erj. Don't you already have a letter of hire for jb, you just need to get current? Why not go with envoy and get to be home for training. Get current and get out.

I'm the B6 guy. Two of us living in DFW are posting in this forum. It's a tough call. And from an integrity issue I really have a problem with it. I had a date at AWAC in March that I declined when I went to phase II at B6. I would have had the three months needed to get current and would have gotten a May 28 class. The pilot hiring committee deadlocked on me (here's a guy with lots of experience and a diverse resume that had not flown a Jet in a couple yrs - although I did a GIV type in 2011 and have been flying myself around in SE piston recips.). Instead of rejection they deferred my class contingent on recency of experience.

The fact is, I can't afford a regional salary for long. I don't live extravagant by any means but my annual mortgage payment is more than a first year regional salary - so it's a total high-risk savings ride from here on out. The spread between different gigs average 8K; which is fun money if you make 100K a year. If you make 30K, an 8K pay difference is a big deal. Staying in town for training does lessen the impact on the family. I know the likelihood of a DFW base is remote. Training contracts are another variable. I also need to fly on reserve - sitting in a crash pad for six days to do a round is not going to cut it.

I also take offense that Mr. Fábregas wrote Congress a letter detailing his concerns about the pilot shortage. He wrote:
“This has become an obstacle to the industry’s continuing ability to provide regional air service to many small and medium sized communities around the country. Several regional airlines have already reduced their levels of flying, attributing it to the pilot shortage and the pilot shortage is not getting any better. In the relative near term it could well result in additional service cutbacks within the industry, hurting each of those many communities individually – including their residents and employers – and also having a negative impact on the national economy.”

So management comes to us and says we are too expensive. Yet, they go to Congress and points out that the shortage is already happening. We applaud the Congressional Committee for seeing these for what they are capable of. They cannot have it both ways. They can’t cry to Congress about a shortage, and yet they want to lower the income of pilots. Some of these pilots are strapped down in student loan debt of over $100,000. Every red cent matters to our FOs. Management should be embarrassed. We are embarrassed for them.

Mr. Fábregas “mischaracterizes” the Chairman’s comments on PBS. At no time did Captain Sprague accuse the company of implementing PBS as punishment for rejecting the TA. What Captain Sprague did say is that the push to implement PBS “fits nicely” with the apparent plan to punish the pilots at Envoy. Captain Sprague rightly pointed out that the company will take a bite out of our hides if we vote no to PBS.

As dire as things seem, this all could be alleviated. The company could swallow their pride and come back to the table in a reasonable manner. They do not appear that they want to do that at this time. They have told us that they will place aircraft elsewhere. They might come back to us further down the road. Our fear is that it will be too late. We cannot attract new hires, because pilots do not want to come here with this Comair II threat being held over our heads. We can’t keep pilots here, because the company said there will be displacements and our future is uncertain. We do not believe we can continue the amount of flying AA wants us to do while sustaining such a large hit against our attrition level.

It is time for AAG to take the nearly 2700 pilots at Envoy seriously and uphold our current agreement. Mr. Fábregas, please stop giving us empty promises! It’s time for management to work with us to keep Envoy on a path to success, so that pilots can find a prosperous career here. It is time to make good on your word, so we can move forward as healthy company with qualified pilots willing to fill the seats of our aircraft!

Fly safe,

JF and KW[/QUOTE]

I'm am thinking they couldn't cry to Congress about service to small communities, if we had a "real" passenger rail service in this country! I am serious with that statement. That would solve the small community problem, help the economy, and solve a lot of transportation problems. If China can have a modern HS rail system, why can't we (even rural China)? I wish we would invest in infrastructure and not under-paid labor to solve our transportation problems. My 0.2 cents.

because we have such well developed losers in public office and no railway lobby group and that the government does not want to invest into updating the infrastructure of the rail system, you see the new thing is green, even though the trains run on electricity and are more green than an airplane will ever be.

Why. You knew this was going to happen. Pilots made a very good choice but business suggests they will seek cheaper elsewhere. Regional airlines disappearing would not be the worst thing in the world.

Why? They have a contract negotiated in good faith. They turned down an offer that would make things worse. What exactly are you suggesting? Just what is it they are further entitled too?

not complaining, made the right choice, just showing the lying sacks that they are. also that a large corporation cannot due simultaneous negotiations because it may be distracted. If I am not wrong these negotiations with other feeders have been going along all the time. AMR was negotiating with us while at the same time they were negotiating with RAH and SKW.

So that they have to keep there thoughts on one negotiation is B.S. which should have been done three months age if you are to believe AAG that they were all banging on the door for a feed contract.

Just more eggs for AAG managements face. Just keeps piling on.