Yes, we are in two different places.

I'm aware of the previous smaller consolidations that resulted in Flagship (Air Virginia/Metroflight), Biz Ex into Simmons, Chaparral/Metro, etc. Flagship was APA then and perhaps that had a lot to do with its morphing and AA/APA influence (aside from gradual ownership of these carriers by AA). At that point, regional consolidation was frequent and common. I'm talking about true whipsawing and its associated upheaval and true whipsawing didn't really rear its ugly head at AE though until AMR started pitting the carriers DIRECTLY against each other by flying each others routes, into each others hubs (and even mixing their crew rooms !) and that first started in about late '92 and was in full force by '94 with a few fights in the crew room shared by Simmons (after they were merged with Metro) and Wings West pilots specifically brought in to DFW because Simmons ALPA wouldn't play ball.

That is more akin to the ruthlessness that seems has returned to the throws of AE again. The mid 1990's was a VERY tumultuous place in the AE system (complete with several fatal accidents). The stuff that happened prior to that was hardly noticeable as I recall due to the separate carriers being very small in the early '90's and any precursor to the large scale introduction of whipsawing thus seemingly less significant.

Read your flow agreements before getting all spun up over nothing.

Mason you may be right, I just don't see it. All signs are pointing to the flow liquidation of this company, not the "gateway to AA". I don't think any of the negatives will really affect the majority of us due to the pilot shortage, but it still sucks.

Past, meet present

There will only be 3-4 regional operators left when the consolidation is completed. Most will be wholly owned.

Which I've agreed with. Direct pitting of one against the other worked in the mid 90's and can work again with a few modifications


Also something I've been saying since the merger date. WAY too many now, especially on the U side. Some will consolidate and others vaporize. As the overall pool of regional pilots shrinks, the overall network will too.

Perhaps 4 regionals mixed into each hub (to prevent a Comair), fleet commonality and stagger their contract durations to ensure a strong whipsaw ability.

I have.. The protected pilot agreement says people on the list as of a certain date, but also says nothing about a merger. Only successorship.

I have also been around long enough to know the agreements we have aren't worth the paper they're written on, (clearly) since management does whatever they want regardless.. And I know people always get screwed in the seniority integration of mergers. Look at the pinnocolaba integration nightmare. Super junior turboprop CA's going above super senior jet FO's.


The 824 are "probably" safe with the flow since it's an arbitration award. The protected pilots would more than likely get screwed. That is everyone on property from about 2.5 - 8 years of seniority.

Hope I am wrong but ALPA sure doesn't give me any confidence in these matters..

Not that it matters but Flagship also had the Command Airways group added in. I was at Flagship 92-94... and yes we were APA .. .and APA destroyed the moral of that pilot group in 94...talk about being to the brink of a strike and having the company call the unions bluff and watch them blink.... amazing. Anyways... more to the point... Not that my opinion matters but you will see more consolidation ... but also less RJ flying as the mainline carriers slowly.. take some of the flying back..... only time will tell how it will all really turn out.

Well, Flagship pilots wanted to tell management to stick it and were neutered by APA. APA wasn't willing to financially support the cost of labor action against management for Flagship pilots (along with any damage it might do to them if it affected AA ops and jobs) and so divorce was then imminent. Didn't forget about Command. They had some VERY senior dudes. Prior to that in '93 Flagship furloughed some pilots and put them in class as new-hires at Simmons and stiffed them out of their Flagship seniority when they merged (which ALPA got reinstated). A LOT of ugliness. In fact, it now looks kinda calm in comparison, although I'm not in the dugout anymore, but in the bleachers, so it may just be my present view. :cool:

When they start deliberately putting competing pilots in the same crew rooms and fistfights start breaking out, THEN I'll know AE is back to the good old days.

Why not? The whole East/West thing at Airways has taught Parker the value of having labor groups distracted and at each other's throat, instead of united against management.

that is the one of the things parker knows how to do. the other is bribe and then ask for the money back, APA that was for you. Parker wants his money back one way or the other, eagle is the training ground for parker.