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Ultimately its probably cheaper to cancel the order and just pay whatever cancellation fee was negotiated. Either that or some regional elects to get rid of some of there 50 seaters and replace them with these - ie no expansion.
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Originally Posted by JustAMushroom
(Post 1632143)
Really? How about...Money?
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Admittedly I don't keep up with Eagle but this is new to me.... “We are in final negotiations with a couple of providers for placing the 175s. I’m not sure when we’ll announce something..." 60 planes aren't going to Eagle. Looking more official every day. Like someone above said, maybe they'll go on the AA certificate but more than likely Parker is gonna hand them to his buddy JO. They still might go to Eagle. US Airways will just come back with a crappier deal each and every time. Eventually you will say Yes and they will have won. They are going to win no matter what. It's like your little league hockey team playing at the stanley cup. You're gonna lose. The sooner you admit it, the less painful it will be. Really? How about...Money? well said. OO is currently operating somewhere around 27-28 200's for US/AA... replace those with 30-40 175's and SkyWest will jump at the opportunity... |
Right now If they come back to the table, it would have to be a better deal than the one before. So, why should they just bend over at the first carrot like PSA?
ETA: should've quoted seafye |
Originally Posted by atpcliff
(Post 1632254)
I don't think JO has much of any excess pilot capacity to staff those aircraft.
Unless they can't place the aircraft elsewhere...if they say "NO" every time, and AA can't find staffing to fly them elsewhere, eventually AA will have to offer Eagle a decent contract to fly those planes...that's what Mason has been saying for months. If the money is high enough, then SkyWest could staff them...but if the money is that high, then it would probably make more sense to give that higher amount of money to Envoy. AAG management was trying to make Envoy a hybrid of Mesa and PSA. Having work rules that are close to Mesa but with the pay caps that PSA has. Management doesn't have to modify the CBA to place the A/C, and actually there is much language in the CBA that is re-fleeting friendly towards the company. So, AAG doesn't have to have a deal with Envoy, all the details are set. Management has demonstrated greed and that is the only obstacle, they want these airplanes flown for basically 50 seater rates on the CA side and T-prop pay on the FO side. |
Originally Posted by air101
(Post 1632180)
well said. OO is currently operating somewhere around 27-28 200's for US/AA... replace those with 30-40 175's and SkyWest will jump at the opportunity...
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Originally Posted by amcnd
(Post 1632304)
But if you "replace" them who is going to fly PHX-FLG.. The 200's do a lot of short routes, suited for a 50 seater... There will always be a "small" need for the 50 seater.. If there wasn't SkyWest wouldn't be flying on ORD for AA...
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Compass IS the most likely candidate to take 10
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Originally Posted by Kill Switch
(Post 1632007)
At this point the initial bid will go to those companies with a standing training program for the 175...AAG will pay the child support to put those birds in the air because if they don't - then they will just look like fools because their carrot to envoy wasn't eaten.
The planes coming online later can be the negotiating ones...but right now AAG is just trying to get these birds in the air with the amount of having to take it in the shorts. I see Compass getting 5, maybe 10. PSA doesn't deserve anything but their new shiny planes. PDT's training department is a train wreck. Republic, XJet and Enjoy already said go pound sand (thank you), SkyWest has 100 175's coming - which will replace their -200s (and who says they will actually fly all their orders and not lease some to others to make $$), AWAC is updating their -200s with new leather...so why get 175's???..., Endeavor is drowning in their own blood, and TSA and GoJet have no business taking 175s when their sister Compass already has a proven track record with them. So point of the story...5-10 of AAG's shiny new jets MAY have a home. It's also known fact that TSA won't bid for flying if it will put it in the red...unlike others who will bid, go in the red for 3 of 5 years on the contract planning to win the bid after 5... Pi$$ poor planning promotes pi$$ poor performance. American Presents the New E175 :: American Airlines Newsroom The Embraer E-175 jets will be branded with the new American Eagle livery and operated by Republic Airlines, a subsidiary of Republic Airways Holdings. Beginning today, the aircraft will fly from Chicago O’Hare International Airport (ORD) to Albuquerque International Sunport (ABQ), Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport (MSY) and Pittsburgh International Airport (PIT). American will expand its E-175 service as additional aircraft are phased into operation. This will be done at a rate of approximately two to three aircraft per month, with 47 E-175s expected to be in service by the first quarter of 2015. “Preparing for this momentous event has involved hundreds of employees both at Republic and American,” said Republic Airways Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer Wayne Heller. “I want to thank the team at American and our people throughout our network who have worked so hard developing the program for today’s launch. We all are very much looking forward to growing our longstanding relationship with American Airlines.” |
AWAC is updating their -200s with new leather...so why get 175's???...,
AWAC is just doing what we all did to our first crappy car in high school...went to the flea market and picked up some cheap pleather covers to cover up our white stained up seats! |
Originally Posted by satpak77
(Post 1632322)
AA's press release says Republic will fly them, or did I mis-read it ?
American Presents the New E175 :: American Airlines Newsroom |
Originally Posted by satpak77
(Post 1632322)
AA's press release says Republic will fly them, or did I mis-read it ?
|
Originally Posted by air101
(Post 1632059)
Ridiculous... they're not going to just contract out 5-10 jets that's just a waste of everyone's efforts. And they certainly won't be going to Compass.... They may split it between two carriers such as SkyWest to replace the current 200's they have flying for AA/US and then someone else. Republic can't handle it and neither can Mesa but by giving half to SkyWest that would give another operator time to get at 175 training program up and going.
You have it ALL figured out don't cha. What makes you so "certain" they won't go to Compass or that AA won't divvy them up between a few carriers? I can't seem to figure out why that's so unreasonable. Delta does it all day long and to me, Delta has their sh*$# together so they must be doing something right. |
Originally Posted by EA18Gpilot
(Post 1631636)
Mil pilot from the get-go, new to the part 121 game and kind of confused... So they're shopping around for another regional to place these nice, shiny new jets - but in essentially the same sentence say that they want Eagle/envoy to be this wonderful place where pilots can "upgrade" to mainline flying with AA. If they are placing so much stock in envoy and their pilots, why not let them fly their new jets? Is this some sort of "spanking" by Inc. for not taking concessions?
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Originally Posted by AlaskaBound
(Post 1632334)
[IMG]
You have it ALL figured out don't cha. What makes you so "certain" they won't go to Compass or that AA won't divvy them up between a few carriers? I can't seem to figure out why that's so unreasonable. Delta does it all day long and to me, Delta has their sh*$# together so they must be doing something right. It's really going to be either Mesa, SkyWest, or Republic. Or a combo. Until AA can get another outfit to start a 175 program. There just isn't time before 1Q2015 for anyone else. Guess we will see mid May. |
Originally Posted by JustAMushroom
(Post 1632366)
It's because Delta owns Compass that no AA 175's will go there.
It's really going to be either Mesa, SkyWest, or Republic. Or a combo. Until AA can get another outfit to start a 175 program. There just isn't time before 1Q2015 for anyone else. Guess we will see mid May. |
Originally Posted by JustAMushroom
(Post 1632366)
It's because Delta owns Compass that no AA 175's will go there.
It's really going to be either Mesa, SkyWest, or Republic. Or a combo. Until AA can get another outfit to start a 175 program. There just isn't time before 1Q2015 for anyone else. Guess we will see mid May. |
Originally Posted by satpak77
(Post 1632322)
AA's press release says Republic will fly them, or did I mis-read it ?
American Presents the New E175 :: American Airlines Newsroom That Press Release was from AUGUST 1, 2013,......8 months ago! Check it out: American Presents the New E175 :: American Airlines Newsroom |
Originally Posted by gojo
(Post 1632372)
Dammit, I'm always the last to know. When did this happen?
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keeping track of all the regionals and who owns who these days is indeed a pain in the a**
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it takes 5 yrs for the always informed pilots to realize an ownership change like Compass to Transtates. need another year
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It's because Transtates owns Compass that AA 175's may go there.
It's really going to be either Mesa, SkyWest, or Republic. Or a combo. Until AA can get another outfit to start a 175 program. There just isn't time before 1Q2015 for anyone else. Guess we will see mid May. D'oh.... |
[QUOTE=JustAMushroom;1632366]It's because Delta owns Compass that no AA 175's will go there.
[QUOTE] so which is it? |
Originally Posted by gojo
(Post 1632372)
Dammit, I'm always the last to know. When did this happen?
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Originally Posted by satpak77
(Post 1632387)
keeping track of all the regionals and who owns who these days is indeed a pain in the a**
I own a grand total of 0 [zero] regional airlines. |
Originally Posted by Spoiler
(Post 1632470)
it takes 5 yrs for the always informed pilots to realize an ownership change like Compass to Transtates. need another year
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Does Envoy already have a 175 training program up and running?
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Originally Posted by theHub
(Post 1632521)
Does Envoy already have a 175 training program up and running?
Filler |
No envoy does not have a e175 training program, they most likely will use US Air facilities and instructors with cut and paste on the manuals.
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Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 1632575)
No envoy does not have a e175 training program, they most likely will use US Air facilities and instructors with cut and paste on the manuals.
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no, aag was assuming a lot by threatening and saying we are not coming back.
my scenario is the only way to keep aircraft in house in the time frame left, IF they do not go some where else. |
they threatened their way off my friends list
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Originally Posted by JustAMushroom
(Post 1632476)
It's because Transtates owns Compass that AA 175's may go there.
It's really going to be either Mesa, SkyWest, or Republic. Or a combo. Until AA can get another outfit to start a 175 program. There just isn't time before 1Q2015 for anyone else. Guess we will see mid May. D'oh.... |
Originally Posted by air101
(Post 1632768)
If (and I highly doubt it) Compass begins flying for another major, they will lose certain benefits that they have today by being exclusively Delta Connection. Even though they are no longer wholly owned there is still a lot of synergy between the two that would disappear.
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Originally Posted by FLYZERG
(Post 1632782)
Please cite the privileges Compass pilots have that Skywest pilots do not with Delta.
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Originally Posted by spaaks
(Post 1632789)
besides flow through??
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Flight safety
AAG has training already set at flight safety in St. Louis that comes as part of the deal with Embraer for the airplanes. I've heard as early as flight safety's first long term program starting in a August. They run 1 initial a month right now. This allows whoever gets first batch to have access to additional sim. But why secure that training if you are gonna give the airplane to someone that already has their own facilities. We've also heard an old training center guy SS is back to start a new program. All rumors but we'll see in the next few weeks we hope
However I care a lot less about new airplanes and more about them continuing to restrict the flow. We are behind over 50 slots already and growing every month. Long term it's really messing with a lot of guys seniority and resultant career earnings |
Originally Posted by air101
(Post 1632768)
If (and I highly doubt it) Compass begins flying for another major, they will lose certain benefits that they have today by being exclusively Delta Connection. Even though they are no longer wholly owned there is still a lot of synergy between the two that would disappear.
Originally Posted by FLYZERG
(Post 1632782)
Please cite the privileges Compass pilots have that Skywest pilots do not with Delta.
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Originally Posted by air101
(Post 1632768)
If (and I highly doubt it) Compass begins flying for another major, they will lose certain benefits that they have today by being exclusively Delta Connection. Even though they are no longer wholly owned there is still a lot of synergy between the two that would disappear.
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Originally Posted by 450knotOffice
(Post 1632809)
"They" refers to Compass, the airline, not necessarily the pilots.
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