Yeah, it's pretty crappy to have fast movement and have a better QOL rather being at another carrier making crap money for 5-8 years. Why are FO's bailing other regionals to come to PSA? Can you explain that?


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.... but there's no problem with envoy pilots who accepted a bribe, ratified the same deal, (to save THEIR jobs), and lowered the bar for all pilots and those who will follow, because they voted "no" twice before accepting the same concessionary contract, .... and besides, ........ their jobs where on the line. Got it!

Do you even know the definition of the word "hypocrisy"?

I know Envoy made negotiations at places like TSA a lot more difficult.

You PSA guys didn't vote to save your jobs, you voted to take airplanes from Eagle and hasten your upgrades because it was a good career opportunity. It's as simple as that. Eagle had freshly rejected the company when you guys volunteered for the concessions. To deny this is a lie.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-w6YDiuvvKy...Bto%2Bself.jpg

Really.. Come on! What's done is done. Let it Go!

Perspective
 

PSA's NC was told that if we did not ratify the offer, the leases on the CRJ200 would not be extended. (shut down starting date 2017) As Envoy has painfully found out, Dallas doesn't say something they are not going to follow through with. Remember, PSA was presented with aircraft in the past. We were told if you say "no" they will go to (Mesa, Republic) and offer them the airframes. We were also made sure that we knew that neither group had to get a pilot ratification. We said no and he did as he said. I know that on the heels of your concessions after BR, you didn't want to take it in the shorts a 2nd time. But, you were no longer negotiating with AMR, you were negotiating with Parker. As you can see and we have known, he does as he says.
As for lowering the bar on a contract, we get an annual bonus that by far exceeds the small increases in medical. 4/12 alone sounds like a concession. It wasn't an issue once the rest of the contract was taken into consideration. SDO and CCP has given an individual the ability to work as little or as much as they wish. Also making more money than anyone on property has seen. I will personally vouch for that.
I am sorry this has bled into Envoy threads, but I would like to clear-up some of these issues with facts.
I voted no because the TA was wrong and was damaging to a contract we just ratified 4 months earlier. It's passing just made me realize that there is no brotherhood.
Respectfully, 39%

you mean everyone at eagle? because everyone at the majors doesn't know and doesn't care

Gradual shut down as other regionals and AA take the routes/planes. AAG has no incentive to prop Envoy up with an Endeavour style deal due to the fact that the regionals they're contracting with now are all staffing the flying. I predict the 824 will flow but no protected pilot or new hire will see an AA cockpit through the flow mechanism.

This will be your 4th time at the bargaining table in what 2 years? Don't f*ck this up!!!! Whatever happens it's all on you guys now, nobody to blame if it goes badly-nobody to thank if it goes well.

For the umpteenth time, Envoy didn't vote yes on the expectation of getting anyone else's airplanes or expecting fellow employee groups to take concessions. That should be the crux of the argument.

PSA didn't know that they were getting the 700's from Envoy... Is this what you are referring to?

And it isn't like daddy Doug was going to put the 900's at Envoy either. They would of just gone to Mesa more than likely.

The contract accepted was for 30 900s with 40 options.. 24 of which have been exercised. I do not believe the pilot group was aware the 700s would be transferred when voting occurred. Although, Mr. Parka might have known something different.

Which you got at the expense of another pilot group by KNOWINGLY stabbing them in the back

Minor details when you're an undercutting sc@b. Let them think that nobody else cares or knows what they did to the industry. The new hires going there are just as guilty.

Then again, this is the age of not accepting responsibility for ones actions. I can't count how many times I've heard "well its not like I voted, I just came for the quick upgrade!" It's amazing how people are able to justify their actions when they know deep down they're wrong.

Kind of funny if you're an Envoy pilot who took the bribe money and threw the new hires under the bus with the 4th year cap while you don't have to be capped. That's called KNOWINGLY. PSA pilots reluctantly for the third time finally caved after years of standing firm without any support from the so called brothers and sisters of the regionals. Otherwise we will be shut down in few years, as proven by how easily Envoy's 700s are being transferred.

Most, if not all the pilots doubted a single 900 would come on property. Or maybe just ONE so they can exercise their 12/4 cap. I kept hearing "I won't believe it unless I'm sitting in it with revenue passengers. But at least we will be around for the next 5-10 years." You're delusional and have no business commanding even a RC C-172 if you think PSA pilots had any idea that Envoy will lose their 700s to us. But whatever helps you sleep at night.

They may not have known the 700s were coming but when they were announced, psa was awful.gleeful about it.

That's the way it is everywhere. When skywest, ASA/ExpressJet, GoJet, started receiving the Comar birds there was a lot of selfish celebrating with little regard to the newly unemployed Comair pilots. Air Wisconsin were the same way when they though they were going to receive a bunch of Endeavor birds and help Delta with their regional whipsaw. Heck, how may tail numbers does Skywest/ASA operate that came from different airlines. Regional pilots are self serving

http://cdn.pophangover.com/wp-conten...012/10/65b.jpg

The 900s were offered to Eagle as part of a B scale deal which was turned down by the MEC.

How many PCL pilots would have been put out on the street by Air Willy flying those planes? Also, how would that have helped with the whipsawing... have all the other DCon carriers match AW's pay scale in 18 months? :D :D :D

"Don't believe it 'til you're sitting in it with a signed release in your mitts."

You're telling me you don't have at least two less than average intelligence, pathetic excuse of a pilot/ human being in your company? Like the two dummies from our company gloating on Facebook at the expense of another pilot group?

Surprisingly, most of us are not lemmings. Just because one person works for a certain company, doesn't automatically qualify that person to be categorized along with YOUR prejudices and stereotypes. I can't believe I have to explain this to anyone but apparently some of you might be surprised by this fact.

The difference being Skywest/Asa didn't stab anyone in the back to get those tail numbers, let alone do it intentionally knowing it would hurt someone else! When you voted yes, you knew exactly what you were going to do to the eagle pilot group that was trying to hold the line

I didn't vote, scab anyone or gleefully laugh at anything. I got hired, perform the duties that I'm supposed to and get paid for it. When one of you guys saying I took your planes wants to feed my family, clothe my family and finance my living expenses then you can have a say in my choice of employment. And please don't tell me about bringing down the industry, no one is forcing you to stay, there are no locks on the door.

I fly PSA's airplanes for a joke of a paycheck, the future is in moving on. Stop lying to yourself that anyone really cares that you come on here and anonymously try to drown the post in hatred. For the haters out there, this is capitalism at its best, the company that does it for the lest gets the contract. WE are our own worst enemies.....we tell the bosses through this forum our secrets and the union has no teeth. Do your job at the highest level at all times, if that's not possible, go get a real job that you REALLY have to work at!

Until then shut the fack up! PSA management negotiated the contract an we JUST FLY THE EFFING PLANES!

Gonna save this so ontheramp can't back out and delete this later on.

Probably one of the least informed posts I've read in a long time.

Maybe You should be more concerned about flying yourAirbus. It's obvious you want to distinguish yourself.

And backing out or deleting.....I truly don't give a rats @&$ what anyone thinks. I come in do the job and my life starts when I'm on the way home. 450....you must have a lot of time on your hands

Yup, too bad the two of you don't!

+100000000

First bird being transferred to express jet
 

Trans states is going to be the company replacing Envoy in NYC. Basically company is just taking crew out of plane and putting in TS crews so planes are staying in NYC. Also saw a trip in open time mqt-tys. (Tys is express jet maint base)They are gonna make us deliver the aircraft to express jet to give them away How's that for rubbing the salt in the wound. Also been rumblings of Parker turning E175 order(40 Envoy is allegedly getting) into E195s for mainline. He has publicly said 19 ac is not large enough to justify fleet type. So we'll need to get rid of them or order more. With group 1 pay so low with new AA contract he might have decided more is better. With no E175 delivery there is no trigger to increase flow rate any more. So now 76% voted yes for no planes, no increased flow, but pay caps, freezes and increased medical cost. And our union was too stupid to put a clause in there that said. If no E175 show by November 1. New agreement is thrown out and we go retro with pay increase back to jan 1 2015 or this many aircraft get transferred back

New York Envoy ops to close
 

I'm assuming you work at envoy. You say it's the age of not accepting responsibility for ones actions. So why don't you take responsibility for your own crap contract and stop blaming PSA for this.

How is your new contract doing with attracting new hires? 5 new hires in feb and 3 in jan?


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If AA converts 175 orders to 195s we should all be happy.

Whatever??? You only have one eye open. How about if the airplanes stayed at Endeavor, then Delta has to somehow find a way to staff them. Which is what happened. That's a quicker fix to the financial woes facing the regional industry than your suggestion of waiting 18 months. And if you believe that Delta was not going to use Air Wisconsin as a pawn in their regional whipsaw chess game then you don't know Delta. Delta's intention right off the bat was to get Air Wisconsin to fly them cheaply for this looming "rate reset" with a Skywest/ExpressJet. That's why they didn't want to raise Endeavor's pilot compensation. In the end they decided on alucrative bonus structure. Now others carriers are also offering incentives. So in my opinion Air Wisconsin did this industry a favor by telling Delta to take a hike

Maybe a little more time on my hands than you. Maybe not. Don't know, don't care.

I've been in this business for a LONG time, ontheramp - likely as long as you have been alive. I am well aware of the history of this industry, the ups and downs, ebbs and flows. Nothing stays the same.

Your "I truly don't give a rat's ass" bravado (although likely true right now) will probably change as you gain time in this industry.

Only if you're the pilot hired into that seat.

So what were the financial terms that Delta negotiated with AWAC that would undercut the other DCon carriers' rates, because it has always seemed that Air Wisconsin can't get any flying because they are too expensive. Also, AWAC management doesn't do anything that won't add to their coffers. Maybe you have the numbers to show otherwise, since nobody else does (at least, anyone who is willing to share them).

Air Wisconsin turned down the flying because of how Delta handles the DCon carriers, and the penalties for non-performance put too much risk on AWAC's financial stake - their making money - on this deal.

I will reassert what I said before: AWAC flying those RJs would not have put a single PCL pilot already on property on the street. As far as getting new talent at any regional, everybody is in the same boat - what is to say AWAC would not have had issues hiring to staff 20-plus additional aircraft? Can anyone ramp up staffing that quickly?

I still maintain that you are choosing to only look at part of the picture. It is true that the financial terms are not available to compare against what other DCI carriers are doing it for, but based on what you said about the performance penalties it sounds to me like there wasn't much extra to work with. Other DCI carriers are making it work with what I'm assuming the same performance penalties, even GoJet which is another privately held company. And while you are probably correct that Air Wisconsin taking 20 CRJ's wouldn't have caused a furlough at Endeavor, not Pinnacle anymore. I think you're being simple minded to believe that it wouldn't have affected their quality of life.

If you honestly don't know the background of why we had that crap contract forced down our throats, then I'm no going to dignify that question with a response. You sir, are an idiot.