Envoy Pipeline
 

I'm a low time (750) instructor and got a job offer from Envoy through their "Pipeline" program. I'm not sure wether to take it as they require a 2 year commitment from class date. The benefit would be full travel benefits immediately. I'm conflicted, as on one hand I would have a guaranteed job immediately. On the other hand, how do they rate relative to other regionals. What do you recommend? Wait until I have my hours and apply elsewhere, or take their offer?
Thanks for your input.

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...ed-pilots.html

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...rs-2-left.html

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...-e175-dfw.html

envoy pipeline - Google Search




That took me 2 minutes.

There's only about a 10% chance you'd actually have to fulfill your 2 year commitment anyway, since envoy is in full Comair mode. Might as well enjoy some free travel benefits.

PM a guy named RJ Pilot. He was a former Eagle pilot who got fired and is now a "GV Captain" flying into closed airports (read living in his mom's basement). He is a very trustworthy character and you should take his advice to heart.

If travel benefits are important to you, it could be worth it. You are not that far from RATP limits and once you reach those, you are set for any regional of choice. The pipeline program forces you to go to Envoy. Would you have much time to travel as an instructor? I know when I was an instructor I neve would have been able to.

As soon as you meet the requirements you've got a guaranteed job anywhere you want.

The question you need to answer is where do you want to live ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What do you have to do in order to get fired from a regional these days, anyways? Boink the CP's daughter?

Boink will get you into the training department so you can support his daughter. only way to get technically fired is if the police escort you in handcuffs, but then the company will just place you on leave of absence until you a released from jail and yes you will have to repeat long term training.

Definitely wait. You'll pretty much have a guaranteed job at any regional when you meet the mins. Dont settle for one that is drastically shrinking and offers little career progression compared to others (Compass, TSA, PSA, Mesa) just because they offer you a job now. I know a guy who fell for it, left before he was supposed to start class and now has to pay back the $5000 signing bonus. If I were you Id build up the hours then apply everywhere and choose which airline works best for you.

This is so on point it's awesome.

It's almost flattering, you'd think...to get an airline interested in you this early on...but trust me, once you reach 1500 you can pick any regional you want. Don't sell yourself to a troubled regional for the sake of travel benefits in the meantime.

I have also been contacted by Envoy. The pipeline seems to be a good deal but I'm nervous about quitting my job and moving away for a cfi job but its the only way I can build the time while keeping medical benefits when instructing. From what I read Envoy is in trouble and is there a chance that they may cancel the pipeline?

What exactly does envoy need a pipeline for anyway? Aren't they going to be shrinking to 1/2 their current size? It sounds to me the only pipeline that makes any sense is one straight out of there.

If you want to be DFW based I'd say its probably a good place to go. They're going to shrink, that's not surprise at this point, a retention plan is in the works, and once the 175s come on property hiring classes will start filling up more. Pick a regional based where you want to live at this point. No point in chasing a quick upgrade when you'll likely be able to move on to bigger and better things 5 or so years down the road.

Also, there's no harm in doing the pipeline thing now, enjoying the travel benefits, and not spending any of the bonus. If a retention plan does actually materialize, it's going to have to be offered in the next few months, so you should have some time to think.

I would like to be DFW based. I have to instruct for maybe 6-9 months though. I plan on getting some good time flying this summer in the Dallas area. Even though I read alot of negative things about envoy I plan on keeping a positive attitude about everything.

If you're dfw based you'll probably enjoy it. You'll sit a bunch of airport standby shifts but probably fly on most of them from guys I hear from down there. Mostly every new hire class since the beginning of the year has been dallas based, not sure how many are in those classes but it's definitely not much, just don't expect much movement.

You have a good attitude and seem to see the glass half full, and that's half the battle - but, don't ignore the warnings about Envoy. It is probably one of the worst, if not the worst regional to go start a career with right now - they are losing an immense amount of airframes, the schedules are horrible, the reserve times are huge and there is no upgrade in sight. The only positive thing they got going is their flow to AA, but by the time that materializes, AA will be hiring anyone who is qualified due to the continued expansion of airframes and retirement numbers.

All regionals suck, apparently, but, go with one that you can live with...there are several other regionals with bases in DFW that you should probably check out. That pipeline program is there to lure you with the travel benefits and health insurance but what you get does not make sense compared to what you'll have to deal with later. This is just my opinion based on hanging around these forums hearing horror stories about that place for the past year.

What he said! Plus...

Not having to commute for a regional is a huge QOL improvement. I wouldn't worry about envoy going away and even if it did, you'd be off the hook for the 2 year commitment!
It's no secret that we are shrinking, so take that into consideration. The company (AAG) is not real clear on how many airplanes we'll have when the dust settles. They claim they're not sharing the info because it gives them the advantage when they're negotiating rates on airplanes.
If you have any questions, feel free to PM me. I don't really keep track of threads for very long because they get side tracked so fast.

I also agree that you should wait. I know of 2 guys in class at other airlines that have to pay Envoy to get out of their contracts.

The reason Envoy is trying to lock CFI’s into a 2 year contract is because they are having a VERY difficult time recruiting. They are a shrinking company who has treated their pilots extremely poorly and now no one wants to work there. Reserve time is long. Upgrades are non-existent.

You can go ANYWHERE you want to go when you get the mins. Airlines need you desperately. The landscape is changing drastically by the month. 3-6 months from now things will be different. 6-12 months from now it will look very different in the regional industry.

Don’t get locked in. In my opinion, these “pipelines” take advantage of younger people who aren’t as versed on the state of the industry. They don’t realize they will have tons of choices and don’t need to have a “guaranteed” job lined up.

You will have lots of options with a Dallas base. Research them. Maybe Envoy will turn out to be your best option, but probably not.

^^^^lol sounds like RAH. How are the mighty fallen.

I'm sorry but how does this compare to RAH and how is this funny?

I'm a little ahead of you as far as time "newbie01", around 900, but like everyone else is saying there are a lot of better places than envoy right now. They have pipeline at the school I work at also and my student asked me about them. I'm not too sure that he liked the response he got from me but I stated facts. No progression, currently loosing planes, and closing bases. There's more to an airline than nice shiny signs with an E-175 picture on it and the captain that comes to the school every couple of months, and if you want travel benefits go throw bags part time. I instruct full time and throw bags for Daddy D (Delta) 5 days a week so it comes with decent flight benefits if that's your thing, and working there has made me aware or giving me an inside view I should say so that'll help some with your research when you do have to choose a place to hang your hat or jacket.

For all the **** talking on Envoy, I'd like to say you will work with great people there and great crews while going through a pretty damn good training program. The place is definitely taking its fair share of blows right now, but it isn't going anywhere overnight. I don't see DFW or ORD shutting down in the foreseeable future, and if your main goal is to eventually be at AA a lot of the procedures and op specs are quite similar to whats at AA. Definitely not a reason to go to the place but things in this industry change very quickly, and nothing is set in stone. Best regional out there today may be the worst a year down the road. Pick a place where you can be where you want to be based at this point. I've never worried about not receiving a pay check here and you can get some decent flying on reserve. The place is a little top heavy and a lot of captains have been here for 20+ years..you can learn a lot flying with them. If you plan on coming here and have to commute a good bit then I'd definitely look elsewhere though where you can live in base..at least until things really do take a turn for the better.

Shrinking pilot base.

You need thicker skin. :o
It was a wistful laugh at how Envoy, RAH were growing like crazy about 8-10 years ago and are now are heading in the opposite direction.....

A cash retention plan is not in the works. That was covered at the DFW meeting yesterday.

Envoy management is again threatening our union that they will unilaterally impose new reserve rules if they don't play ball. The company struggles with properly utilizing a reserve system and being efficient with staffing and when they get themselves in a bind they feel their only option is to threaten us. Someone looking for a PhD thesis on employee relations could use AMR/AAG as a basis for one. The last three years when there is an option, they have always chosen the adversarial path. That being said you will find most of your co workers enjoyable to work with.

I stand corrected, hadn't had the chance to read through the meeting notes when I posted.

Envoy has flow through. It IS something to consider. Plenty of guys retiring from regionals because they never made it to the majors. I know assume guys at my airline would rather have gone to majors...but it didn't work out for them. No other regional has direct flow through...

The flow through is definitely something to consider. You'll hear a lot of people say the flow will never happen, it'll take 10 years to flow, etc. I personally don't think its going to take that long once it goes into full force.

Piedmont has direct flow through. It's nice to have this option...apply to any major/lcc at will, but if nothing else you can and will flow in a short period of years. Even if it took 10 years, a younger entrant to the industry has favorable odds to be at a American for 20+ years.

Reason why Envoy is falling hard is because of an ALPA failure at an almost epidemic level. The fact that our airframes/flights/domiciles are being given away to all these other scumbag regionals who willingly have no problem ****ing over other pilot groups for personal gain. For the record this isn't a shot at PSA only, Piedmont taking our 145s, TSA operating in NYC, and RAH commandeering our crew rooms in MIA. Enjoy it all.

ALPA carriers taking each other's flying with almost no recourse for management. For me, the place is now a joke. They pay for my commute with guaranteed travel/hotels to and from work. 4 days of work is really only 2 due to the commute to and from on first and last day of work. This needs to happen to EVERYONE, not just the dudes like myself whose bases keep getting closed.

Ill make it simple for you. Is a year of flight/medical benefits and starting the clock on your vacation time worth 5 grand?? If it is then do it. If not, then don't.

You sign a contract that has a buy out which is pro rated so once you hit 1500 if you want to go somewhere else use the bonus the other company give you to pay it off. You aren't locked into going to Envoy. Is that the smartest move? Is it ethical? Its up for you to decide.

Just remember the regional sector is extremely fluid. Your making an educated guess regardless. The only thing that seems to hold true is the place to go now will be the worst place to work in two years.

In December 2010 Mesa was just out of ch 11 and had a ten year upgrade, and furloughing, and trust me Mesa is not a good place to an fo very long. Colgan was the fast upgrade (those guys ended up in now endevour and are fos still). Horizon was a 10+ year upgrade and no relief in sight, those guys are upgrading. Eagle was a guarentedd place to go to not be whipsawed. If you went to Piedmont assume you'd never upgrade or never see real flow. Eagle, expresjet, and pinnacle (now endevour) were the three most sought after places. This industry has an unpredictable wild card just around the corned. My guess is flow and the soon large bulk of mainline hiring they will consume.

Like the experienced guys on here tell you, pick somewhere you can tolerate the current conditions and contract of in the base you want. The rest are rapidly changing variables.

Best advice on this thread. Try to have fun along the way too, after all, it's a job flying airplanes at the end of the day.

Let me get this straight - if hired at Envoy you do/do not get an American Airlines seniority number ?

Do not. Just a flow.

OK, thank you !

You forgot the "privilege" of working for Dougie.:eek: