Envoy to keep CRJs longer
 

More CRJ flying to be retained
Envoy to Retain More Bombardier CRJ-700 Flying


Dear Envoy team –

I’m pleased to report that Envoy pilot staffing has steadily improved in recent months, enabling us to operate more of the flying American Airlines asks us to perform. As a result, we’ll continue to operate some of our aircraft longer than previously announced and the rate at which we transfer aircraft from Envoy to PSA will decrease.

In recent months, it has become apparent that an increasing number of Envoy pilots are choosing to stay on the Envoy team and enjoy a direct career path to American. Envoy’s agreement with the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), which represents our pilots, provides industry leading "flow-through" rights to American for all existing and new hire Envoy pilots. In addition, AAG has made a substantial investment, placing 40 new 76-seat Embraer 175 (E175) jets in the Envoy fleet, with options for up to 90 more. Envoy is hiring new pilots and welcoming back pilots returning from leaves of absence. Lower attrition and increased hiring mean that Envoy is steadily building our capability to fly more aircraft than previously forecast.

Specifically, American has informed me that the transfer of the Bombardier CRJ-700 aircraft from Envoy to PSA will be slower than initially planned. We will now transfer 12 instead of 18 CRJ-700s to PSA during 2015. Envoy will continue to fly the remaining fleet of 35 CRJ-700s until transfers to PSA are expected to resume in the second half of 2016.

All of this is great news for the Envoy team. For our pilots, this means that we will be posting additional CRJ Captain vacancies in the Chicago domicile and will offer more Captain positions in the large RJ pay range. For flight attendants, this means substantially more two-person aircraft will be in service and we will resume new hire classes this fall. For our mechanics, this means that we will have more planes to work on, preserving jobs.

Across Envoy, there is a tremendous amount of work being done to prepare for our upcoming fleet renewal and ensure a smooth introduction of the E175 later this year. The initial groups of pilots have been trained and many of the training, manuals, and procedures are in final development to become the first American Eagle carrier to offer this enhanced two-class E175 service to American’s customers from DFW.

Thank you for all you do – for our customers and each other.

Pedro Fábregas

For the PSA trolls that tried to say this wouldn't happen: perhaps you should be a bit more astute when a member of our MEC is on here telling you it will.

For the little troll saying there would be downgrades and furloughs(FirstClass) - back under your bridge!

It isn't much, but it is the start of quite a bit of good news to come. I hope all my FOs see upgrade here, where they belong, in the next year or two. Upgrades with the seniority pay step they have earned. Upgrades that don't mean a lifetime on reserve.

I think you're being a little dramatic.

It's 6 less for this year.....So they delayed it 2 whole months. I hope you guys can upgrade too but I don't see 6 acft and 2 months helping very much.

Cmon man.

Boom. Finally a small win for ENVOY

Of course you would be right here to downplay it, act kinda like our buddy, but rush right in to do it nonetheless.

The drama is your douchenuts trying to say it wouldn't happen. It isn't much, but at this point every thing we can get to bridge the gap between the loss of the CRJS and the 175s coming aboard works for us.

When you see the vacancy bid, you'll understand.

Old news... Wasn't this already announced on a couple different threads? I'm happy we're only taking 12 this year instead of 18. Hell, I'd be happier if you guys kept them. At least this way our training department might have a snowballs chance in hell of catching up a bit. I started training in January, and it's currently June. 5 months since beginning training and I haven't started IOE. Can't say I hate the pto but geeze, there's only so much one can do with so much time off.

That being said, FirstClass is getting a little annoying. I see what he is doing throwing it back in your faces after almost 2 year of you guys being extremely hostile and degrading towards PSA. He is saying nothing worse than what all of you have said....

Unfortunately all he is doing is stirring up and new round of PSA hate around here and derailing any logical, or helpful conversation in either airline's threads.

I suppose his spin on this will be interesting though. Being a troll is an art indeed, maybe ole' Biter can chime in as well. :D

Good for Envoy. 😀

He needs to go to art school then. Obvious troll is obvious.

I cannot speak for others but I have not given ANYTHING like that tool has. I have been contemplating playing the troll game with him though. I mean if we all want it to just get downright ugly on here, I can certainly make that happen.

Trust me, he's as irritating to us as he is to you guys. We see what he's doing.

I beg to differ.....Of course ;)

He was wishing for downgrades/furloughs/demise of envoy. You guys wished the same crap on us, for a lot longer. However, on top of that your group continually used personal insults in your rants. I specifically seem to remember such terms as "pomeranians," "slave ship owners," and of course the less colorful ones like scumbags, brown streak, bend over and take it etc etc.

Anyway, hopefully the 2 extra months of CRJs can buy you some upgrades.

So does this mean your sending the PSA chairmen a thank you card? I jest I am happy for Envoy. Hopefully AAG buys Republic and consolidates all the E-jet flying on the Envoy contract and you guys keep your flow spot and have seniority on a much larger fleet.

Should we dispose this thread to the 2 year old argument of why we EAGLE pilots were ****ed off at PSA? You can say how you had to survive. I can say how you willingly screwed us to survive, after we turned it down to help everyone. And it will just divulge back to the usual 10 page argument. Bottom line is there was a catalyst for Envoy pilots to be mad, whether you agree with it or not. To now justify a retaliatory "trolling" with the only cause being "they were mad at us first!" seems like just fueling the fire. You guys were on the right track by riding the higher road. People like FirstClass have completely undone that now.

Please tell me this isn't the "big news". :cool:

Sure, it's a shot in the arm, but a very minor one. Let's put this into perspective. First of all, considering PSA's growing pains, Envoy's present overstaffing (aren't A LOT of pilots on reserve ?) and what PSA management has had to do, the delay in transferring a handful of CRJ's is not unexpected to give the rapidly expanding PSA some breathing room. I have to hand it to Pedro for putting a lot of colorful and sugary frosting on what is essentially just bland sponge cake. Between him and Wilson, they have a good PR person writing their schtick. 6 jets for upwards of a year means 60 more flying jobs and 30 more captains (or perhaps slightly less on a 9+ pilots per aircraft staffing model), 30 of which are captains making that extra $4.50/hour or so and hey, that's all nice and fine, but they still plan to transfer all of Envoy's CRJ's and it would seem shrink.

As for the spin that pilots are CHOOSING to stay at Envoy, I can't believe they're contacting legacy carriers or LCC's and asking them to delete their apps as Pedro seems to insinuate. It's more like just a temporary ebb in the ebb and flow of pilot hiring at other locations. In reality, this is not an altruistic move to throw Envoy or its pilots a bone, but rather a business decision to ensure the morphing of Envoy's flying to others goes smoother while concurrently ensuring Envoy's introduction of 175's goes smoother as well early next year. Flight attendants have high attrition and so hiring there is not surprising. All in all, I see the announcement of a known business decision fluffed up to make it sound better than it really is, just like the letter and that poster of Envoy blowing its flow-through horn with a picture of a jet operated by someone else (RAH E-175 ?).

Sorry, but I'm underwhelmed. I left Eagle in 14 and heard over two years of "good news just around the corner" too many times to count. First it's 3 months and we find out, then 2 more months, then 6 weeks, then 2 weeks. When the news came it was always bad. Mason helped perpetuate by stringing things out on here as well.

It's a sad day when "good news" is you get to keep some aircraft "a little longer than anticipated." One day soon will be a day of reckoning for AAG when they can no longer staff their feed. That's the point that they will realize that lack of foresight and planning will cost them dearly. At least, that's what the regional staffing issues are pointing to as far as I can see.

This regional staffing crisis has been brewing across the industry for well over a year now. AAG has failed to take heed and will likely find themselves as the frog in a pot of water that has begun boiling in the next year.

I quit the "how it happened" argument a long time ago.

I'm not justifying what he does, all you need to do is go back up and read the post I made like 15 minutes ago calling him annoying. I'm just pointing out that you guys have dished out stuff that is arguably way worse than him but for some reason it's not ok once a PSA pilot fires back.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/58375565.jpg

While I wish no harm upon Envoy pilots... this really just seems like smoke and mirrors. You get to keep 6 CR7 2 months longer than initially planned.

Big deal... this does nothing to ensure the long-term viability of Envoy. This is also not a blow to PSA. In the end, this announcement basically means nothing.

But the word from the bird is that "it's a good time to be an Envoy pilot".

The masonbird is never wrong, is he ? :confused:

BTW, I'm getting awfully hungry and my crow was promised to be served by now.

Better news than no news.

The letter was total BS, this has nothing much to do with Envoys staffing and everything to do with PSAs staffing. Envoy has had the pilots to keep the CRJs the whole time, management has been actively engaged in making things as miserable as possible which was generally diving attrition.

This doesn't solve our attrition, but the fact is most all of the lateral jumpers are gone, current attrition is flow, LCCs, and major street hiring. You could see another jump in attrition with the rate united and delta are hiring ,the astronauts are almost gone, so were gonna see a higher percentage of regional guys getting the nod.

Also keep in mind. This is now the second delay in the transfer of aircraft to PSA in the last year. All we know is they won't get them faster than is currently planned, there's nothing to prevent them from slowing the pace even further if things aren't working out.

I'm interested in hearing Cujo's take on this announcement. My guess is it will be something along the lines of:

"It's good news. We will be upgrading more and flowing exactly as planned. If you are hired here today, expect no more than 6 years until you are at AA. It's a great time to be an Envoy pilot."

If you could read you would have noticed it's not 6 CRJs 2 months longer. Those 6 CRJs won't be transfered at all in 2015. They will be added to the second batch that starts in 2016. So it actually means 6 more CRJs than originally planned for over a year. Meaning 6 more all the way into 2017 if they take them at the same rate as planned.

You are right, he's obviously a major ********* trying to get to you. You are just run-of-the-mill ********* for your behavior on the PSA thread. Good point.

The ignorance and shortsightedness on this website is amazing and completely not surprising. And it's now being led by Mr. Ignorant himself: eaglefly.

It's a waste of time to attempt to educate people who don't want to listen in the first place, but here goes. The fact that we are keeping the CRJs longer serves as a bridge to when we begin receiving our E-175s. What that means is there will be no net loss of aircraft or a lull in flying as originally thought. Furthermore, this announcement is only the beginning. There will be Captain vacancies posted soon...and let's not forget one very important storm brewing:

Republic. Their entire operation is imploding before everyone's eyes as Bedford has backed himself into a corner. This on top of the fact Parker has never liked him or Republic to begin with. Their MIA operation is in shambles and things get worse by the day. They fly he E175...we begin to take delivery this fall. You connect the dots of possibilities here. These CRJs staying is a drop in the bucket compared to what Envoy has coming their way, but good news never the less.

Let's not forget that our current flow is 6 years to AA with an upgrade in between for new hires. Certain other airlines are unable to offer anything remotely as good so they throw up smoke and mirrors to hide their short comings.

I still think Envoy is going to get more than even the 90 options for E-175s... RAH is sinking fast. That flying has to go somewhere. If Envoy is overstaffed, then what better place?

I'll bet they have considered siphoning some of RAH's 175's to Envoy, but logistics at Envoy have prevented them from doing that. Proving runs will come soon and the original schedule seems likely, but perhaps some of those RAH birds could ultimately move there which means Envoy gets more 175's sooner and perhaps more 175's overall. Even then, it's not a bombshell that will keep an Envoy pilot from Spirit, Jet Blue or Legacies, nor start the stampede to Envoy. Of all things, Envoy needs a 50 pilot/month stampede which equates to perhaps 100 interviews/month considering Envoy's supposed selectivity. I've ridden jumpseat on Shuttle several times and their pilots aren't even phased by 170/175's anymore. Its glamour wears off quickly and they are all clamoring to bail as much as anyone, believe me.

I simply have a tough time seeing masonbirds claims of Envotopia unless Envoy does 75-100 interviews/month and hires at least 45-50 and without that, the best laid plans of mice, men and masons will almost certainly fail to materialize.

Giggity............coming from Mr. Denial himself, this is funny. :rolleyes:

The above is essentially what I said, Mr. Denial, i.e., a known business decision to smooth the transition of aircraft AWAY from Envoy and a lesser number of new aircraft TO Envoy.

Your opinion, yet you spin it as something that will provide certainties for Envoy pilots present and future. Sure there is some truth to that, but equating that with any certainties down the road is absurd.

Um, let's not forget that your CURRENT flow is PROJECTED to be X, which is not the same as a certainty. Me thinks you're upset your OWN smoke and mirrors spin is being cleared and cleaned by others and you find that upsetting.

Given the CRJ's extended stay at Envoy, does that mean they will keep flying out of all current bases, including NY? Is NY base getting an extension as well?

I think they'll eventually will get more jets too. What's the schedule on the first 40 ?

Isn't it something like end of 2017 ?

The whole regional industry will very likely be different by then and Envoy itself could be in any number of situations many doesn't consider. If they order more (ostensibly to REPLACE older, smaller Embraer's), it will be AT LEAST 2018 before they hit the property.

PSA pilots are called scabs by envoy pilots for voting in a decent contract that allowed massive movement at their airline.

Envoy is drooling over flying Republics 175s (that republic actually purchased and owns).

Mmm hypocrisy


Edit:
What about the 140s still being parked and 145s that are going to TSA and XJT?

This is honestly good news for everyone. Envoy gets to fly six CRJ's another year, PSA gets a chance to catch its breath. The other case scenario would've been either PSA and/or Envoy parks -200's or -145's respectfully. AAG doesn't want the dual class birds sitting around at all.

No, I think that's toast. Look, the "plan" AAG has regarding what spreading its feed out is still the same place it was 6 months ago. The plan was to siphon Envoy's flying to others and THAT is still VERY MUCH in play. Looks like DFW and ORD for the forseeable future, but who knows once consolidation occurs ? :eek:

I see what you mean

....they don't want ANY sitting around at all, at least that required to protect the market share they desire. This was simply AAG reacting to bumps in the road to ensure they are doing just that. It was up to Envoy management to spin that as something directed at Envoy pilots for their benefit and that they did. Some see it for what it is and others, well.....................:cool:

Another thing to consider is if they continue the flow as planned or better than planned. Moves to LCCs make even less sense.

At this point any captain with PIC is making the same amount as a LCC 1/2 yr FO and they will flow in under 2 years. The only move that makes sense is another major.

FOs have a bit tougher decision, and the jump to an LCC is far from an obvious move. Go to an LCC as an FO and that very well be a career long move (without PIC) it's not a shortcut anywhere besides better pay and QOL immediately, especially with Envoy bases closing this move might make sense for some guys faced with the prospect of commuting.

Overall if the company acts on its plan of 2.5 year upgrade and 6 year flow, meaning that they hit all required numbers flow/upgrades/hiring the pilot group will begin to trust the numbers and I would venture no one would leave for an LCC when everyone is awaiting either imminent upgrade or flow.

It's time for management to put up or shut up, we obviously don't trust their word, but if we start seeing the flow/upgrades/hiring guys will stay.

Things are starting to brighten

The reason this is big news here at Envoy is because we were forecast to have 12-18 months of shrinking and pain before things got better. The CRJ's staying longer means things get better, sooner. We're not looking at 12-18 months of pain anymore. Instead things are turning around rather quickly and we're looking at movement for the first time in a long time.


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....or it just means AAG's plans for dispersing their regional feed away from Envoy have run into some snags and they are readjusting until those snags unsnag themselves. The 6 planes staying longer isn't a bad thing and it may just mean the difference for a few lucky pilots who capitalize on this development. Is it necessarily a reversal for Envoy ?

I think that conclusion is a bit premature.

No, this was the official announcement and the second slowdown of aircraft xfer to PSA. First for delivery change of 900s and now this.

Ding ding ding. And let's not forget that everyone of those 175's in eagle colors owned by Republic was guaranteed by AAG. There are a litany of reasons those aircraft would have to be given to AAG, including non-performance. At that point, one or all (or any number in between) would have to be returned and then redeployed elsewhere.

It's going to be a good time to be an Envoy pilot.