Whats up with the flow stopping?

Good Luck!

Again, that's all you got and you know it. Insults and "feeling" dumb because YOU choose to respond to me. But hey kid, I'll agree this old man believes you to be just that.......dumb. :rolleyes:

I make it a point to never take advice from someone incapable of following it himself. ;)

The first smart move you made in weeks, I'll bet. Now, if only you can stick to it. Fingers crossed. :D You CLR boyz are slipping badly these days. I can't for the life of my understand why anyone would pay you.

No, but this new "pool" is implying something new is there that always was. The "pool" for present Envoy flows is defined by those on the 824 list, not anything new. All this new statement is, is the claim a "pool within a pool" is something new and special ostensibly to give the impression to the gullible NOT to go anywhere or for those not at Envoy to believe is new advancement.

In reality, it is meaningless nonsense and simply should be filed under "Empty Distraction".

Who or what is your source:confused:Please post a link or show the letter.

It has been confirmed with ALPA that this only applies to no more selections to the pool for the end of the year. We are still flowing a little over 40 more pilots this year and at least 300 next year.

In the words of Randolph Duke, "get back in there at once and SELL.........SELL !!!" :rolleyes:

Where do you come up with this stuff? I haven't thought about that movie in ages. I hope we get to fly together someday, I have a feeling I'll be laughing the whole trip!

There's no need to SELL.....SELL!! as you say. Envoy sells itself. Best flow in the industry along with block hours being added and the E-175's showing up in November. These are just some of the reasons why we just had a major turnout at the Chicago job fair/on site interviews.

It's going to blow away the 28 new hires we had in August. You'll be hearing about it soon. Got to have those new hires to keep the flow going right?

The Envoy flow is fabulous for those on the property for the last 16 years. But we have to keep them new hires coming in to make the whole pyramid scheme work properly!!

That's exactly what it is........a pyramid scheme.

These schemes have 2 fundamental realities. A. They require salesmen to function and B. Once the pyramid becomes too big they always fail leaving those at the bottom screwed to never make the gains those at the top made.

Caveat Emptor.

The whole seniority based system is a pyramid scheme.

You seem to have a hard-on for telling everyone the flow is a sham. Is it because you're likely stuck at PSA until one of the LCC's is dumb enough to call you and you're upset about that? Probably. Also, can you please articulate how the flow can be turned off? You keep saying this but cannot back it up.

Well, for starters, isn't currently 16yrs to flow from envoy to mainline?

What happens if envoy can't get hose 300 pilots they need? Do you think they will keep the flow going?

Good Luck!

Flow is great as a backup if you can't get hired anywhere else. I'm sorry, but Envoy or PSA to LCC is a step UP, not lateral.

You need to do some research. Last I checked, AA had payscales and retirement at least 20% above any LCC. And that's in the first year.

It may be a pyramid scheme on the outside looking in, but AAG has developed this whole flow specifically to keep their WO's staffed. It's already working and the numbers from the Chicago job fair prove it. Envoy will easily be the number one choice for other regional pilots as their operations scale back due to the inability to staff. The regionals that have the pilots will be getting the flying. Pilots are the new currency in the regional world of today.

A. Sales pitch not necessary for anyone looking for a regional job. If they are doing their due diligence it should be crystal clear that flow is where it is now.

B. AAG is completely on board with this program unlike AMR. It's their baby and they know that the aspiring pilot wants a career. And they are making AA a career starting with their WO's.

Do you really believe that a new hire today would choose RAH, TSA, MAG over an AAG wholly owned when all the facts are put on the table? You really are obtuse.

And what would you replace it with?

I'm not going to try and sell anything, but I feel like I need to debunk a common statement I keep reading. This whole 14 year flow thing. AA DID NOT HIRE at all from 2001 till January 2014. If they don't hire they don't flow. So making it sound like once someone gets here it takes 14 years to flow is distorting what is happening now. That's like zooming in on ones stock portfolio in 2008-09 and saying if you invest in the market this IS what will happen, and ignore all the great return that happened post recession. The last decade was the " Great Recession" for us pilots but Look at the big picture. If you come to envoy you will more than likely flow simply due to the mass retirements that are upon us. Or if you choose you can apply to other airlines, like any one else, and get hired and move on. It's pretty simple. We're nothing superior when it comes to contract, pay, etc pretty middle of the road, but having a guarantee job, whenever it happens, with a mainline is kind of nice. My 2 cents.

I don't think it needs to be replaced. I'm just stating the obvious.

Most FO's that I know would not take JetBlue, Sprit, VA, or Frontier even if offered that job right now. A year ago would have been a totally different story. The reasoning is quite simple and it's not that envoy is better then those LCC's. If you desire a career at a LCC (and likely remain forever junior as they all have very young pilot groups) then go for it. Not me.

Roger, is that you? Finally, some common sense on these boards. In all seriousness, did you play for the Tribe back in the day?

http://cconnect.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-...rn-213x300.jpg

Nothing is guaranteed in life, especially a job. :cool:

Flow got you from working at lowly Eagle to a job at AA...

Thank you for that pearl of wisdom captain obvious.

^^^This

If you are an 8 year or below FO at Envoy and move to JB, Spirit or Frontier, then you've just made a critical error. If you stay at Envoy, then you'll be at AA within 4 years minimum and have a long career at the largest legacy airline in the world. Why do you think we are starting to have a line of folks knocking on the door trying to get in here? Hint: It's because starting at Day One in Indoc, the countdown clock starts and they will be on AA property within 6 years.

That 6 year number came out when Envoy was scheduled to loose the all the crj's and needed to still shrink. It would be beneficial to a new hire if Envoy lost another 500 pilots then grew and kept the same flow numbers. If 35 crjs are staying and the company doesn't shrink further, the 6 year flow is inaccurate data.
You can't have it both ways the shrinking was what created the shorter flow projection.

Said every pilot who went to a regional chasing a quick upgrade.

--

I remember the Great puppet, Cuj, shouting last year pre-post TA that if or when it passes, it was THE COMPANY's problem to attract new hires.

What happened Cuj?

Good Luck!