Latest Envoy Blast
 

American Airlines projects that it will need 300 pilots from Envoy next year. This flow-through, coupled with our recent announcements of additional flying for American that will keep our total fleet count stable for 2016, means that we need to hire 400 pilots between now and the end of 2016.

If you have any friends that are ready to begin their pilot career with Envoy and American Airlines, now is the time. Based on American’s upcoming pilot retirements, we are projecting a high rate of Envoy pilots advancing to American Airlines for years to come. A new hire today is projected to make Captain at Envoy within 2.5 years and is projected to flow through to American within 5.5 years of hire date.

For your friends who have Part 121 experience, we have created a shortened interview process just for candidates with their qualifications. They are eligible for our abbreviated application process that typically takes just 30 minutes to complete, and they will not have to take the simulator or technical.

Next week we will begin hosting a series of open house interview events for pilots around the country. Our first stop will be Chicago (ORD), with sessions scheduled Tuesday, Sept. 8 through Sunday, Sept. 13 from 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. each day. The interviews will be held in the Rotunda Room, located inside Security between Terminals G and H.

Why are these new hires important to you?

· Upgrades - These new hires mean Envoy will be able to maintain its fleet plan and upgrade 220 new captains between now and the end of 2016.

· Bonuses - You can earn an extra $1,000 for each successful pilot you refer to Envoy.

Respectfully,
RW

Tide is turning

Great time to be an Envoy pilot

etc.

220 upgrades by the end of 2016, so in 2017, maybe late 2008 hires will get to upgrade. Only a 9 year upgrade!

Edit: saw cujo touting 2011 hires. I stand corrected, only a 6 year upgrade for the guys hired in 2011.

Not bad considering it was 8-10 years when I got hired in 2011. Better than what I signed up for. Those were the days of the divestiture. Sure glad that didnt happen.

Mind you, 2011 was a huge hiring year which means once it gets to 2011, by the time the last PP pilot upgrades it may be a little longer.

300 flows to AA next year plus X number this year equals at least 350 Envoy pilots to AA by end of 2016 which is conservative. OK, lets think about this claim..........

He says Envoy will only need 400 pilots to come to here and that will keep Envoy "stable" at projected fleet count. That means he must assume there will essentially be NO outside attrition. Traditionally even with the flow, almost as many pilots leave Envoy as flow to AA. Realistically then, Envoy will need at least about 700 to be stable or they will have to shrink.

These claims don't match up.

The rest of the blast is all about present Envoy pilots grabbing buckets and carrying managements water to help out. The wildcard will be what AA does beginning next May when deferred furloughs start getting calls to return.

Will AA just blow that off and let them chill while sucking up flows ?

Will AA hire both and run massive classes like the old days which they could have done at any point in the last several years, but have chosen not to even though they have been very short staffed ?

....or is this simply yet another easy claim to make (a murky and unconfirmed by AA "projection") simply to lure more to Envoy ?

I DO notice the promise meter has increased from Wilson, but promises have always been easy to make. The question will be how many suc.......er pilots take this bait, bite down hard and begin taking line ?

Clearly, he is asking for a new contingent of water boys to join the present cadre in grabbing a bucket (or dropping a lure into the water) as it will provide plenty of more junior flotsam with which to keep your heads above water should the good ship Envoy begin to sink.

Should be a fun cruise to watch. :rolleyes:

Ahoy mates !

Several years ago (with a flow-thru), Envoy wanted 600.

IIRC, they got 106. :cool:

From Jetnett..
As Envoy prepares to welcome 40 new Embraer 175 (E175) aircraft to our fleet, we’re looking for the best-trained professionals available to provide safe, reliable and courteous service to American’s customers. Earn an extra $1,000 for referring pilots to Envoy, where they’ll have an unmatched opportunity to flow-through to American and continue their aviation career. The process is simple: 1) fill out an online form for a qualified applicant who has not already begun the recruitment process; and 2) if that pilot gets hired, passes training and stays with the company six months, you get paid. American and US Airways employees are also encouraged to refer pilots to any of AAG’s wholly owned regional carriers and earn a bonus. Refer a pilot today!

They need to hire 400 to make it work? Good Luck with that!

Protected pilots? Yes, Good luck as well.

Good Luck!

All of which means movement and progress to a new hire. Why are you carrying Management's water for them? :)

The thing is, right now, every regional's fleet numbers are based on staffing. Every regional has pilots leaving for Legacy and LCC airlines. A new hire could go to RAH, Mesa, SkyWest, or Compass and the only chance for movement is senior pilots leaving for Major/LCC jobs or they could go to envoy who has pilots leaving for Major/LCC jobs in addition to 350 pilots leaving next year. Seems like a whole lot better chance of movement at envoy to me. And that is in addition to the opportunity to flow to AA. Why would a pilot go to, say Compass where the only chance for movement is normal hiring attrition, when they could go to an airline that has normal hiring and flow?

Shhh...eaglefly knows the answer to everything and it's not good news to Envoy.

Don't argue with the guy that knows what's going to happen, because we are wrong and he's right.

What's reserve time at envoy? Also, how commutable are the bases and lines/schedules from MEM or BNA?

So this is great. Eagle needs 400 new hires, ASA/XJT projects the need for 300 to 500 new hires and Trans States needs about 500 more as well over the next year and a half. Must be a lot of fresh flight instructors in the pipeline...

Both are very commutable. Envoy travel benefits are AA benefits...the same, equal. So you can fly wherever AA flies with the same benefits as an AA pilot. You board ahead of anybody who doesn't work for AAG.

As far as reserve, it's hard to say. I think guys in ORD have been on Reserve longer than the ones in DFW. Either way, moving forward the Reserve time will be very different than what it has been. Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions.

Currently at 4 years but past and present status is always a poor indicator in a changing environment. When I was hired in 2004, guys hired just 2 month before me spent less than 3 months on reserve and I spent just over two years. This was due to a huge hiring wave that I just happen to get in on the back side of. envoy has spent the last 4 years shrinking. I believe the union told us that we have about 50% of the flying we did before. We have sub 50 hrs lines this month with one reserve pilot for every two line holders. envoy has been taking block hours back from RAH and Mesa due to their inability to staff and poor performance. Expect the reserve time to drop drastically in the next 12 months.

envoy is in transition. Parker wanted us to shrink but since we are the only carrier in a position to handle more flying and afford to flow, he is adjusting his strategy to the market. We have a huge glut of pilots, partly for the training bubble of the E175, partly in preparation of the flow, and partly due to a plan hatched two years ago to shrink us. That plan has changed. My point is, although there are 4 year reserve FO today, what you will find 6 months from now will be a completely different story. Many, including myself scoffed at R Wilson's claim of a 2.5 year upgrade and 6 year flow. We now see his plan, how he hopes to accomplish this. With each flowthrough class, the time to flow is reduced. I have only seen L-Eagle upgrade close to 200 captains in a year one other time in 15 years. If they upgrade 220 pilots next year, that will be the largest amount of movement for over a decade. I also believe that their announcement of 300 flows and 220 upgrades are on the conservative end of the projections. Its likely those numbers may end up higher. No one, except eaglefly, can tell you with certainty whether their plan will work out. Choosing what regional to go to is always a risk. Do you think some of the pilots hired at RAH six months ago are regretting their decision? Will Mesa be in this situation next year? Its always a gamble but Parker has publically stated that the flow is his solution to staffing his regional flying. He is vested in it to make it work. (Mostly because he doesn't want to raise the pay, but I think before its all over, he will have to do this as well) As the supply of regional pilots becomes tighter, do you think he will invest his resources in the wholly owned carriers or to a contract carrier? Personally, I think we are going to see more carriers play out what is going on at RAH now. Its only going to get worse.

As far as the commute goes. BNA to ORD has a lot of commuters but many flights. Not sure about DFW. MEM to ORD or DFW doesn't have the frequency but much fewer commuters. Nice thing about MEM though, you always have FedEx. Never JS on them myself, but I hear its pretty nice.

Thanks for the replies! How would you compare to PSA? I have looked at them because of the ease of commute to their bases, but also lose an hour because of the time change. Not sure that would play a huge part in it, but maybe trying to commute same day it might help.
Also, how are most lines built? 4 day trips and 3 off or so? I know PSA has the SAP, is there any schedule swapping available at Envoy? Thanks again

$1000 bucks! Go fish!

That was back in 2011 and they hired close to 400 in 10 months.

350 or so are still in the seniority list

As usual. You're wrong again

Yeah the early 2011 guys might be the only guys on property who come out slightly ahead of the rest. My early 2008 friend will probably a solid 8 year upgrade if they actually put a big vacancy out for the next one.

I always find it comical when people put numbers on the current upgrade time, as if that has any bearing on what it would be for somebody hired today. Newsflash, it doesn't. Anybody with half a brain should be able to figure that out.

So, 400 pilots need to be hired at eny between now and end of 2016. Thats 25 per month minimum.... If that doesnt happen, ya'lls flow won't work.

Simple.

Good Luck!

The number of pilots between a 2011 hire and a new hire at Envoy is very small. The attrition over the last year and a half was mostly pilots near the bottom of the list. It's been painful for the guys that have stuck it out, they were sitting at the bottom of the list with little movement. Now that the shrinkage has stabilized, things should improve. Someone who gets on the front of this wave should have it much better.

I say DONT APPLY. In fact I wish all candidates would stop applying to any regionals for a mere month. It would only take one month of zero applicants to make the majors throw money at hour subhuman pay rates.

How long do you guys think this wave will last? I supposed to be getting to ATP mins next year and was thinking of doing the pipeline program. I hear as a pipeline instructor you get seniority over your class mates. I was thinking since Envoy is getting the 175 and I would like to fly that aircraft it would be beneficial when it comes down to choosing airframes. I do also like the travel benefits on AA and it will make it easier for my wife and me to visit family.

I don't think that is true.

SJS

Good Luck!

Why did you apply then?

The wave will last as long as management makes a job at Envoy attractive, and the airline is able to hire. That could be years if you look at how many retirements are going to occur at AA, and all of the majors. Or it could be short lived, due to a shortage of candidates. Nobody really knows. However, our movement is due to guaranteed attrition off the top due to flow, not aircraft fleet growth.

As far as seniority goes, you only accrue company seniority if you join the pipeline program (used for 401k, vacation, i.e. benefits that are not unique to being a pilot). You will not accrue bidding seniority as part of the pipeline program. Your bidding seniority will only be determined by your first day of indoc at Envoy.

As for flying the 175, a jet is a jet. However, our FO's are not allowed to bid to transfer aircraft currently, so if you get hired into the 175, you may end of with significantly better QOL than an FO stuck on another airframe.

I believe you get a bigger sign on bonus if you join the pipeline program. And you get AA flight benefits as a flight instructor.

Just as a side note for pilots planning on commuting while at the regionals, the AA flight benefits and wholly owned jumpseat priority can be a big help. I commute on a route with a lot of full AA and US Airways flights, with a lot of other commuters. AA and Airways pilots go ahead of me for the jumpseat, but there are plenty of times where I've made it home and non-wholly owned pilots have been left behind. QOL here isn't the best right now, but knowing I have a good shot at getting home removes a lot of the stress of commuting.

If AA is quick, they can acquire Republic and merge the pilots into the seniority list.

AA has agreed to Envoy's business plan. They are going to allow all the Envoy pilots to flow up to AA and shrink Envoy until nobodies left.

Thanks for the reply gents. Really appreciate it. I know this might sound cheesy but since a kid I always wanted to be an AA pilot so Envoy is the way to go I think. Once again thanks for all the replies.

Why............because Envoy is presently a house of cards whose foundation is propped up by assumptions and hypotheticals. You're not only carrying management's water for them, it's likely bad water to boot. :cool:

No, by all means don't pay attention to me. More importantly, don't pay attention to the Piper Cub behind the curtain who KNOWS nothing will go wrong, all promises will be kept and Unicorns and Rainbows are a certainty if a new-hire or present regional pilot just comes to Envoy !!!

Hear ye, hear ye.............come one, come all...........the Good ship Envoy awaits and you DON'T want to be one who misses its glorious cruise to utopia !!!!!! :D

Nope. A fraction of the necessary pilots are out there and it would take YEARS to resupply that if they started aggressively NOW. Again, the claim is Envoy is losing at least 350 to AA over the next 16 months (end of 2016), but only needs 400 to replace them. Only 50 pilots will leave Envoy over that same period to places OTHER then AA ?

Does this math work for you and if not, can you trust this source ?

Caveat Emptor.

All predicated on the ability to hire at least 40 pilots each and every month from here on out. Those pilots simply don't exist. Sounds good on paper, but doesn't pass the sniff test..................well, unless you have no nose or can't smell anymore from having it wedged in places it shouldn't be. ;)

Nashville is a great town and people love living there, but the commute to almost anywhere is tough. For those thinking about it who will then be super junior, it will be REALLY tough. Most of those (almost all, in fact) who commute out of BNA aren't going anywhere either.

Until the remaining 824 flows are moved out. Then, expect a seismic shuffle and a "landscape that must change". The Envoy of today almost certainly wont be the Envoy of tomorrow.

What if someone gets hired next year, are they still protected? it really doesn't matter?

It appears the last of the 824 won't flow until sometime in 2017. A lot of variables there. If you get hired at Envoy next year, expecting a 6 year ride to AA as per recent claims isn't realistic. If AAG consolidates some or all of its wholly-owned's, it gets worse and you'll have thousands of pilots ahead of you for AA and combined with almost certainly a slower monthly metric, that's a long wait.

IMO, the guys SELLING this now all have self-serving motives. They don't give a rats patoot about any newbie, they want Envoy to be as robust as possible just long enough to get their own tickets punched to AA, that's all.

A lot of Envoy Pinocchio's running around there (and here) these days. :cool:

Caveat Emptor.

Caveat Emptor goes without saying. Question: It appears that flow is the recruitment tool of choice for ENY and PDT. New hires are becoming few and far between right now, and this problem will only get worse. What you are suggesting above is that the flow will at some point after the 824 grind to a halt or at least slow to a trickle. This would damage recruiting efforts in an extremely scarce market for pilots. In your opinion, how will AAG staff their regional feed properly with their number one recruiting tool creaking along?

Compared to PSA, it's apples to oranges. PSA has the SAP, which makes their trip trading and dropping, then picking up more trips easier than envoy's trip trade system. But yes, envoy does have a trip trade and drop trip system. Trip trade works fairly well, if you know how to use it. I have traded up a full months worth of trips before. Drops on the other hand, are almost impossible these days, if you're trying to drop a few days in advance. You're more likely to drop a trip the day of, than days in advance. Having said that though, I have been able to trip trade to get the days off that I need when a complete drop was unavailable.
However, envoy's CURRENT flow is light years ahead of PSA's Selective Interview Program, as it stands today. That's not to say that it'll stay that way. I doubt envoy's flow will go away, as this is the basket that the company has put all of its recruitment eggs into. PSA 'might' get a true flow some day, but probably at the expense of their super trip trade program. But until they have serious recruitment and retention problems, AAG probably won't do it.

As far as the commute goes, MEM or BNA to DFW or ORD shouldn't be too bad. There's a lot of commuters in those cities, but they go everywhere that you would have to commute to PSA bases too, not just ORD & DFW. There's plenty of frequency, and most of those flights are in envoy, so as an envoy pilot, you will have JS priority. (IIRC, ORD-BNA is envoy, DFW to BNA is AA mainline and envoy in combination, MEM-ORD is envoy, and MEM-DFW is AA mainline and envoy combination). As a PSA pilot, you might be in decent shape commuting to CLT, but TYS would be a 2 leg commute, and I'm not sure about DAY, but I think that would be a 2 legged too. Not sure what other bases PSA is supposed to open, but I'm hearing PHL. Check Passrider Interline Travel Information ? Interline Travel and Pass Travel Information for commutability between any two cities.

You have my email address if you have any questions.

At PSA, the SAP has been broken for the past 5-6 months and management only appears to be "going through the motions" in terms of fixing it. As for trading with open time, it's been nearly impossible over the past couple months due to "below minimum reserve availability".

So no, to me it wouldn't appear to be "apples and oranges".

Which is true of every regional out there. RAH is experiencing that now. Not enough new hires has created a bad outlook which has perpetuated less new hires. Personally, I think Republic is just the first and there will be more. When that happens, which regionals do you think Parker will put his resources toward? Go to Compass where you may stagnate if they cannot hire more people or go to envoy where they flow of the top, guaranteed each month. It's a gamble either way but which is more likely? Good Luck, I guess?