Dera is correct...... but only if your lifetime goal is a ULCC.
If your goal is a Legacy. ENVOY now is the best option in the industry.

Which legacy? AA? No. Any other legacy, yes that could be true.

No-one starting today will benefit from waiting for the flow.

This still only a good deal of you are within two years of flow. When those numbers snap back you’ll be left holding the bag. And you still have lost seniority elsewhere.

This just improves the lot for those who planned to go to AA anyway to not try and jump the flow, or if AA was a strong option, but not a MUST.

May keep a few more as lifers if they want to do training or just not want to start over. Basically those 55 plus-ish.

Bottom line is if something else works better for you in the long run, you’re still going to do it.

Good stuff you’re smoking there. This doesn’t benefit anyone unless they’re about to leave for a major or about to flow. Still, you make more at any major, certainly after 2 years. Not to mention, its not a regional. After 2 years you’ll be back to low pay. At the majors you’d be pretty senior or upgrading at that point. Unless you are really set on flowing, you’d be crazy to give up on 2 years seniority at the majors to stick around at a regional.

Shortspatula is correct. Seniority is everything in this industry. Make sure you chose correctly.

So I heard/keep hearing that the goal is to keep regional Captains long enough to take a new hire from FO to CA, which they estimate to be 2-3 years. If they can keep a Captain for 2 years, give them a flow date 6 months out, they system sustains itself. Add that to the 5 flow year language in the CBA extension, and it theoretically makes sense. Does anyone think that 5 years will be a real, accurate number? For example, a 3 yr FO upgrading this year, will actually flow in 2 years (his 5th)..... or do you think that at year 5 everyone will be disappointed at the lack of flow and then end up at Delta/United/Fedex?

Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but the MEC just vote themselves a raise to 145 hrs of pay credit per month?

Without any input from the pilot group. Funny how that slipped the email.

Grifters gonna grift

Yea it is funny how this personal raise was missed amongst the masses. Actually the ENV MEC slipped many items past their own pilots and their mainline partners.
I think this MEC must have needed some extra money before they have to pay back their bonuses and jump ship!

Nah, honestly I hope this brings some stability to the MEC. They need it. I think MEC officers should be lifers. Thats what I was advocating before the current ones railroaded themselves in.

The current group is a piece of work Ill say that for darn sure!!!!

where is the post 2 year pay scale?

From what I understand the MEC had nothing to do with it except approving it. W/O management went to AA and they worked this out, THEN went to the union.
The magnitude is what surprised me. But they obviously realized the severity of the problem (keeping pilots) and reacted in the best interest of the company. Not a complete fix, of course. That’s virtually impossible in such a complicated and dynamic business. But it certainly will make a difference in the number of pilots jumping ship.

Is it true that the mec get 145 hour guarantee pay.
that is b.s. if true.

where’s the after August 24 rates? If they don’t extend it what do they fall back to?

About 1/3 less. This didn’t cut and paste very well.

Captain rates

Yrs of Svc DOS 2023 +1yr 2024 +2yr 2025 +3yr 2026 +4yr 2027 +5yr 2028. +6yr

1 $97.50 $100.00 $102.50 $105.00 $107.50 $110.00 $112.50

2 $100.00 $102.50 $105.00 $107.50 $110.00 $112.50 $115.00

3 $102.50 $105.00 $107.50 $110.00 $112.50 $115.00 $117.50

4 $105.00 $107.50 $110.00 $112.50 $115.00 $117.50 $120.00

5 $107.50 $110.00 $112.50 $115.00 $117.50 $120.00 $122.50

6 $110.00 $112.50 $115.00 $117.50 $120.00 $122.50 $125.00

7 $112.50 $115.00 $117.50 $120.00 $122.50 $125.00 $127.50

8

$115.00

$117.50

$120.00

$122.50

$125.00

$127.50

$130.00

9

$117.50

$120.00

$122.50

$125.00

$127.50

$130.00

$132.50

10

$120.00

$122.50

$125.00

$127.50

$130.00

$132.50

$135.00

11

$122.50

$125.00

$127.50

$130.00

$132.50

$135.00

$137.50

12

$125.00

$127.50

$130.00

$132.50

$135.00

$137.50

$140.00

13

$127.50

$130.00

$132.50

$135.00

$137.50

$140.00

$142.50

14

$130.00

$132.50

$135.00

$137.50

$140.00

$142.50

$145.00

15

$132.50

$135.00

$137.50

$140.00

$142.50

$145.00

$147.50

16

$135.00

$137.50

$140.00

$142.50

$145.00

$147.50

$150.00

17

$137.50

$140.00

$142.50

$145.00

$147.50

$150.00

$152.50

18

$140.00

$142.50

$145.00

$147.50

$150.00

$152.50

$155.00

19

$142.50

$145.00

$147.50

$150.00

$152.50

$155.00

$157.50

20

$142.50

$145.00

$147.50

$150.00

$152.50

$155.00

$157.50


Not going to reformat all of it, but those are the rates without the 50% “pilot supply premium” increase and what will be “permanent” when things snap back.

We should actually say what this means too if we're going to go there.

1) About 25% of the current seniority list will no longer be here then. Really, these guys are making out like bandits.
2) The lifers, about 8.5% of the seniority list, will be making between $117.00 and $147.50 per hour. Most will be on step 20 so $147.50 per hour for most. Certainly way better than old rates capped at step 12.
3) I think most flows will be here for more than 7 years to flow but we'll just say 7 years which means 1 year of elevated step 20 pay for the flows. So about 12% of the seniority list will be on step 20 making $147.50 per hour just because they intend to flow. They would have been on step 6 making roughly $50 per hour less on previous rates.
4) The rest of the pilot group is not getting special privileges but will be making more than any other regional pilot based on current contracts. Yes, I know others regional pay terms will change between now then. All I can go on is current terms. Envoy's may also change again for all we know.

Many of those in the above groups 2-4 will be line check airman (making 100% override for instruction) or sim instructors/check airman making between 135 to 147 hours per month.

Nope, not needed, that's what I was looking to see.

It's nice to see management finally doing what we told them to start doing long ago. Imagine all the headaches they would have avoided.

Even with the potential fall back rates; it's still very good, and is what we had been telling them to start working towards since the bankruptcy and the 2013-2015 concessionary battle. They kept demanding concessions, while we kept telling them to start paying and treating everybody better. They'd have avoided a crap-ton of staffing headaches if they'd have listened to us back then, and gradually worked their way up to this instead of creating crisis after crisis with bandaid fix after bandaid fix for 9 years before realizing we were right and doing the right thing.

Glad it finally happened and to see the guys having it much much better than we ever did. Everything from commuter hotels, long call, to real pay. It's great to see it happening.

That said, a five year flow is still a long time in this market. A guy just off IOE can get just about any LCC s/he wants, and if you work at it, Delta-Fedex-UPS-United are within reach too. Why would anybody wait 4+ years to flow when they can very often be gone in their first year? If you absolutely ant AA, it's probably worth staying now, but if it isn't a deal breaker, I'd still be looking to move up and out at the first opportunity.
Example, Frontier is planning to almost double in size over the next year or so. Anybody on property now, or soon will be a captain in a very short time. What's a career of Captain pay vs waiting 4 years to flow to first year FO pay. The frontier guy (with some OT) will already be 1 million ahead.

Envoy is a good job, but there are better ones available that are still worth moving to. This change will only stop or slow the ones that were going to go to an LCC as a stepping stone to increase their street hire ability at Majors & Legacies. Still, for many who live in an Envoy base, this just became a great job.

Just following the rumor train here...

If Envoy were to lose a base would it be MIA? Are there any issues with keeping the over water cert right now? Hard to believe Envoy would go down to 2 bases total so what would be a hypothetical new base if MIA did close?

Is it true that no CA upgrades were offered MIA lately?

It is true that no CA upgrades were offered in MIA on yesterday's Vacancy/Displacement notification. However, it looks to me that DFW 145 is going to be the first to close. There were 20 DFW 145 FO displacements in the notification. No MIA displacements.

There were no ORD upgrades offered on the spring and winter bid, now there are. MIA had CA slots those same two bids. Can't make a "omg base is closing" determination with the limited information.

It was that coupled with a few other things like the EOW cert possibly being taken away, don’t know why or how that would even be possible.