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- - Envoy Lies (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/92245-envoy-lies.html)

There are dozens and dozens of ways for AAG to slow the flow. They can simply bankrupt Envoy, which will release them of all responsibilities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daOldMan (Post 2032484)

There are dozens and dozens of ways for AAG to slow the flow. They can simply bankrupt Envoy, which will release them of all responsibilities.

Or bankrupt PSA/PDT/Envoy and keep you guys there longer. After all the 3 WO have the same economic structure.

-Sorry 824 is a grievance award (Cant be taken away)
-Protected pilots is a grievance settlement, Its not contractual (Cant be taken away neither).

If there were able to get rid of those, that would have been in bankruptcy back in 2012.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daOldMan (Post 2032442)

Now, here's the funny part. If the 700's don't leave Envoy, then Envoy needs more pilots. If they don't hire enough new pilots, the flow will stop sooner. So, the best thing for the flow at Envoy is for the 700's to leave property. But, are the Envoy pilots smart enough to figure this out? No! They are celebrating that the 700's are going to stay on property longer.

Of course we are happy about the 700's staying longer because we aren't complete moron's.

We are overstaffed like crazy. We have over 600 pilots on Reserve and the line holders are flying 60-70 Hour lines. We have ZERO time and Part time lines, what other regional has these? Senior reserves sit around all month and no NOTHING. Just about every line holder trip has a lost day in there somewhere with someone just sitting around at a hotel for 30 hours.

The fact that we are NOT losing the 700's next year and shrinking even more is the ONLY reason we will have any upgrades and upward movement for 2016, which is the only reason our QOL isn't continuing to get even worse and we are still getting new hires that we need. Continuing to lose our fleet to PSA isn't going to help us. AT all. Only an idiot would think that. Our already dismal QOL would be exponentially worse losing all the 700's in 2016. We can easily flow 30/mo and maintain our flying for quite a while actually. Hell we are covering everyone else's flying DAILY and still have enough overstaffing to cover the entire airline at PDT if we needed too. This is how overstaffed we are. New hires are coming in now, class sizes are much better than they had been.. and we will continue to get more as they see that we have more movement and attrition off the top to a "Legacy" than any other regional out there.

You know, there are a couple of other Envoy threads where we can move these discussions over to.

Continually bumping this thread which was started by a fake account with FALSE information is pathetic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyvector (Post 2032568)

Come on man. Someone had to start a new Eagle Lounge. After all APC is free.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanP (Post 2032545)

Of course we are happy about the 700's staying longer because we aren't complete moron's.

We are overstaffed like crazy. We have over 600 pilots on Reserve and the line holders are flying 60-70 Hour lines. We have ZERO time and Part time lines, what other regional has these? Senior reserves sit around all month and no NOTHING. Just about every line holder trip has a lost day in there somewhere with someone just sitting around at a hotel for 30 hours.

The fact that we are NOT losing the 700's next year and shrinking even more is the ONLY reason we will have any upgrades and upward movement for 2016, which is the only reason our QOL isn't continuing to get even worse and we are still getting new hires that we need. Continuing to lose our fleet to PSA isn't going to help us. AT all. Only an idiot would think that. Our already dismal QOL would be exponentially worse losing all the 700's in 2016. We can easily flow 30/mo and maintain our flying for quite a while actually. Hell we are covering everyone else's flying DAILY and still have enough overstaffing to cover the entire airline at PDT if we needed too. This is how overstaffed we are. New hires are coming in now, class sizes are much better than they had been.. and we will continue to get more as they see that we have more movement and attrition off the top to a "Legacy" than any other regional out there.

You guys need to be overstaffed to cover RAH AND PSA FLYING. In other words, envoy gets the sloppy seconds.
Someone gots to do it.

Good Luck!

No bridges are built in Internet-land without trolls taking up residence below them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daOldMan (Post 2032442)

The flow only continues until the airline can't stage all of the current flying. As soon as they can't get enough pilots, they will stop letting them go. They are not going to allow flow when flights are cancelling due to lack of staffing. This is common sense.

I got news for you... that already happens. Yet, the flow is still going.

Lack of staffing here is ONLY because of mismanagement. There is NO lack of staffing when the bid pack is able to offer 10 zero time lines and a bunch of part-time lines and 62 hour averages.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotJ3 (Post 2032508)

It is error to think a settlement by two parties to avoid an arbitral award is equal to an arbitral award. If that were the case, there would be no difference. The company settled for a reason and that was to allow for more flexibility in the future rather then be bound by an arbitral award. It is why they are moving the 824 out ASAP. Besides, they wont need to "take it away", Envoy ALPA will agree to dilution of the Envoy flow when confronted with a worse result then if they don't.